05-13-2004, 11:09 AM
GQROB,
Some good names dropped. Rickenbacker won the medal of honor, and after the war went on to own the Indianapolis Speedway, start his own car company and become general manager of Eastern Airlines. He would get my vote for one of the top because of his short duration at the front. But I don't believe he was particularly brilliant as a fighter pilot just better than most.
Gabreski, on the other hand is pretty unnotable. Except for becoming the first american fighter pilot to surpass Rickenbacker he had a kind of lackluster career in WW2. But he flew in Korea, and was credited with 6.5 kills bringing his total up to 34.5. I wouldn't consider him great, he was a slower learner who became very competent the more he flew.
Boyington, who flew with the avg in china (flying tigers) and later rejoined the marines, organizing and commanding the black sheep actually claimed a total of 26 kills which would have tied rickenbacker but four of this six he claimed while flying with the avg were not ever awarded to him. I wouldn't consider him great either, not tactically brilliant by far but flew a superior plane at a time when japanese pilots and planes were being outclassed.
If you want to bring up American pilots in WW2 I would suggest Joe Foss or Richard Bong ahead of Boyington and Gabreski.
Hartman scored all 352 of his victories on the eastern front flying against the russians. The advantages he had in the number of missions he flew, the pilots he was facing and his own natural ability (he was a very good pilot), and some luck (he crash landed 14 times and bailed once) are what led to his staggering figure. He was able to bring 7 planes down in one day, twice, (it takes 5 to become an ace) and on another single day shot 10 down. He was proud to have never lost a wingman. You can't argue that he was one of the best.
Both Richtofens (Manfred and Lothar) were above average pilots but I credit Manfred's success to Boelcke (who basically invented the rules fighter combat). 40 of the red baron's victories were not against fighter planes. If you want to talk about a german ace of world war 1 talk about Voss or Udet, or Boelcke of course.
-T
Some good names dropped. Rickenbacker won the medal of honor, and after the war went on to own the Indianapolis Speedway, start his own car company and become general manager of Eastern Airlines. He would get my vote for one of the top because of his short duration at the front. But I don't believe he was particularly brilliant as a fighter pilot just better than most.
Gabreski, on the other hand is pretty unnotable. Except for becoming the first american fighter pilot to surpass Rickenbacker he had a kind of lackluster career in WW2. But he flew in Korea, and was credited with 6.5 kills bringing his total up to 34.5. I wouldn't consider him great, he was a slower learner who became very competent the more he flew.
Boyington, who flew with the avg in china (flying tigers) and later rejoined the marines, organizing and commanding the black sheep actually claimed a total of 26 kills which would have tied rickenbacker but four of this six he claimed while flying with the avg were not ever awarded to him. I wouldn't consider him great either, not tactically brilliant by far but flew a superior plane at a time when japanese pilots and planes were being outclassed.
If you want to bring up American pilots in WW2 I would suggest Joe Foss or Richard Bong ahead of Boyington and Gabreski.
Hartman scored all 352 of his victories on the eastern front flying against the russians. The advantages he had in the number of missions he flew, the pilots he was facing and his own natural ability (he was a very good pilot), and some luck (he crash landed 14 times and bailed once) are what led to his staggering figure. He was able to bring 7 planes down in one day, twice, (it takes 5 to become an ace) and on another single day shot 10 down. He was proud to have never lost a wingman. You can't argue that he was one of the best.
Both Richtofens (Manfred and Lothar) were above average pilots but I credit Manfred's success to Boelcke (who basically invented the rules fighter combat). 40 of the red baron's victories were not against fighter planes. If you want to talk about a german ace of world war 1 talk about Voss or Udet, or Boelcke of course.
-T
MIHS - hot cause we fly you ain't so you not
2004 Subaru WRX STi
1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass
2004 Subaru WRX STi
1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass