+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: Who is/was the greatest... (/showthread.php?tid=472)
Pages:
1
2
Who is/was the greatest... - KPWSerpiente - 05-13-2004
fighter pilot of all time? Any war, any theatre, any amount of victories.
I'm testing the anything goes part of this forum.
I'll pick World War 2 Japanese Ace Saburo Sakai, 64 kills.
And I'll defend my choice in relation to any other pilot, if needed.
-T
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
![[Image: topgun.jpg]](http://www.szilagyi.us/images/topgun.jpg)
- GQROB - 05-13-2004
Well considering the time US pilots spent in combat as compared to pilots of other nations, these guys faired well.
- Eddie Rickenbacker, might I note he was a successful race car driver. 26 kills
- Francis "Gabby" Gabreski, 28 kills
- Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, 22 kills
If ya want to go by stats, Erich Hartman is the highest scoring ace of all time. 352 kills in his Me-109.
Oh, and who can forget the great Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen(aka-Red Baron), 80 kills
- Mike - 05-13-2004
I don't know anyone other than Manfred Von Richtofen, and there is probably a reason that I know of him. So he get my vote.
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
There's no points for 2nd place
- KPWSerpiente - 05-13-2004
GQROB,
Some good names dropped. Rickenbacker won the medal of honor, and after the war went on to own the Indianapolis Speedway, start his own car company and become general manager of Eastern Airlines. He would get my vote for one of the top because of his short duration at the front. But I don't believe he was particularly brilliant as a fighter pilot just better than most.
Gabreski, on the other hand is pretty unnotable. Except for becoming the first american fighter pilot to surpass Rickenbacker he had a kind of lackluster career in WW2. But he flew in Korea, and was credited with 6.5 kills bringing his total up to 34.5. I wouldn't consider him great, he was a slower learner who became very competent the more he flew.
Boyington, who flew with the avg in china (flying tigers) and later rejoined the marines, organizing and commanding the black sheep actually claimed a total of 26 kills which would have tied rickenbacker but four of this six he claimed while flying with the avg were not ever awarded to him. I wouldn't consider him great either, not tactically brilliant by far but flew a superior plane at a time when japanese pilots and planes were being outclassed.
If you want to bring up American pilots in WW2 I would suggest Joe Foss or Richard Bong ahead of Boyington and Gabreski.
Hartman scored all 352 of his victories on the eastern front flying against the russians. The advantages he had in the number of missions he flew, the pilots he was facing and his own natural ability (he was a very good pilot), and some luck (he crash landed 14 times and bailed once) are what led to his staggering figure. He was able to bring 7 planes down in one day, twice, (it takes 5 to become an ace) and on another single day shot 10 down. He was proud to have never lost a wingman. You can't argue that he was one of the best.
Both Richtofens (Manfred and Lothar) were above average pilots but I credit Manfred's success to Boelcke (who basically invented the rules fighter combat). 40 of the red baron's victories were not against fighter planes. If you want to talk about a german ace of world war 1 talk about Voss or Udet, or Boelcke of course.
-T
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
The plaque for the alternates is in the ladies room
- BLINGMW - 05-13-2004
KPWSerpiente Wrote:....was credited with 6.5 kills bringing his total up to 34.5.
I don't know anything about fighter pilots, but what's .5 of a kill? Just counting when a wingman helps?
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
You never, ever leave your wingman
- Kaan - 05-13-2004
"one of your snot nosed jockeys did a fly by on my tower at over 400 knots... i want some butts"
- KPWSerpiente - 05-13-2004
Quote:I don't know anything about fighter pilots, but what's .5 of a kill? Just counting when a wingman helps?
Fractions of kills can be awarded anytime more than one pilot brings another plane down.
-T
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
Bogies, like fireflies in the sky....
- GQROB - 05-13-2004
While were at it...
"I feel the need, the need for speed"
- GQROB - 05-13-2004
Damn you guys. Now I have that Top Gun music running through my head.
sing it- Highway to the danger zone, lala lala lala.
That movie actually helped to recruit me into the Navy.
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
Rob... *sniff*... you stink!
- GQROB - 05-13-2004
"The Defense Department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid."
- .RJ - 05-13-2004
Great balls of fire...
- GQROB - 05-13-2004
"Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash."
- KPWSerpiente - 05-13-2004
Quoting Top Gun is like quoting the fast and the furious.
-T
- GQROB - 05-13-2004
KPWSerpiente Wrote:Quoting Top Gun is like quoting the fast and the furious.
-T
That's right, Ice-Man. I am dangerous.