+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: Hopefully this is allowed (/showthread.php?tid=7366)
- G.Irish - 06-10-2008
Evan Wrote:Gerald the very lack of any kind of firm definition for "liberal" or "conservative" is going to mean you can argue with any kind of research into being one or the other, and you certainly can argue with the National Journal article, especially considering Obama has some stiff competition from Reid, Kerry and Kennedy. (And dont be fooled by the name of a bill, which are so full of political doublespeak that they can mean the exact opposite of their name. )
But the point is, he is Liberal, You can see his voting record for yourself, which is in contrast with his rhetoric.
Sure he is Liberal but the whole 'most Liberal in the Senate' is useless hyperbole. I could come up with my own labels like, 'most Gangsta in the Senate' based on who's votes I deemed Gangsta and it'd be about as useful.
Yeah he's Liberal, he never claims not to be. Most of his votes reflect his Liberal ideology. But to paint him as leftest of the left just isn't accurate.
- HAULN-SS - 06-10-2008
ok, ok..you're right. He's just to the right of Kucinich.
- CaptainHenreh - 06-13-2008
Jack needs to watch this:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3834818623655152771&q=&hl=en">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1&q=&hl=en</a><!-- m -->
- Ole - 06-13-2008
Good video if you take the time to watch. I actually own a few guns. I have a shotgun that was previously used for hunting wascal wabbitts and deer, now used for skeet shooting. I have quite a few pistols, some I am saving as collectibles and a few used for target practice.
I have found that shooting helps me in drivng, racing and even my wakeboarding and skiing. It helps my hand/eye coordination. If I can keep these skills keen, I should be able to race into my 70's or 80's (should I be that lucky to still be around).
I do not suggest that anyone own a any type of firearm without training in the use and safety of said firearm. The NRA, despite what many may think of them, does an excellent job of training people for proper firearm usage.
- Evan - 06-13-2008
G.Irish Wrote:Evan Wrote:Gerald the very lack of any kind of firm definition for "liberal" or "conservative" is going to mean you can argue with any kind of research into being one or the other, and you certainly can argue with the National Journal article, especially considering Obama has some stiff competition from Reid, Kerry and Kennedy. (And dont be fooled by the name of a bill, which are so full of political doublespeak that they can mean the exact opposite of their name. )
But the point is, he is Liberal, You can see his voting record for yourself, which is in contrast with his rhetoric.
Sure he is Liberal but the whole 'most Liberal in the Senate' is useless hyperbole. I could come up with my own labels like, 'most Gangsta in the Senate' based on who's votes I deemed Gangsta and it'd be about as useful.
Yeah he's Liberal, he never claims not to be. Most of his votes reflect his Liberal ideology. But to paint him as leftest of the left just isn't accurate.
I think you're missing my point Gerald. I agree the "most liberal" is sensational (when in Rome...) but the point is, if he is going to be Liberal, be honest about it: Live it, Love it and preach it to the world. If the voters of america agree with his liberal ideals, then he gets elected and the democratic process is a success.
To use your example, if you hold gangsta ideals and repeatedly vote gangsta, its manipulative and deceptive to then preach stirring rhetoric how you arent gangsta.
He is certainly not the first to do this, but he is also not being held accountable for it.
- .RJ - 06-13-2008
Evan Wrote:he is also not being held accountable for it.
When has that ever stopped anyone in DC
- KPWSerpiente - 06-14-2008
I'd vote for most gangsta. Can we get some stats?
-T
- JackoliciousLegs - 06-14-2008
Good video rex.
- Evan - 06-20-2008
Barack "I make commitments until something better comes along" Obama
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061900914.html?nav=rss_email/components">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... components</a><!-- m -->
of course, the real issue here, aside from Obama's "I make commitments until something better comes along" attitude, is that this opens the door up for private groups to buy favor and policy even more than before.
Might as well put George Soros on the campaign poster.
- Apoc - 06-20-2008
Evan, could you ever not hate on a liberal? Maybe a better question is was there ever a liberal you liked even if you didn't agree with their policy?
- Evan - 06-20-2008
what difference does it make if I "like" them? Im not looking for best friends forever, Im looking for a representative who reflects my views, ideas, and opinions.
You know, why we are supposed to elect them in this representative government.
So do you vote for whoever you like to look at on the tv and whoever says things that make you warm and fuzzy?
but since Im just "hating", why dont you engage the issue, and tell me why my interpretation of the situation is wrong. :roll:
- JackoliciousLegs - 06-20-2008
Evan Wrote:Barack "I make commitments until something better comes along" ObamaI'd rather have someone that's willing to change than someone who always sticks to their guns.
Edit: Proof
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/obama-calls-muslim-women-barred-from-stage/">http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... rom-stage/</a><!-- m -->
- HAULN-SS - 06-20-2008
no fortitude, that's the problem.
- Evan - 06-20-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:did you read the article Jack? This is not about staying flexible, this is about breaking a campaign promise that he made in the name of integrity, fairness, and minimizing private/corporate influence.Evan Wrote:Barack "I make commitments until something better comes along" ObamaI'd rather have someone that's willing to change than someone who always sticks to their guns.
- JackoliciousLegs - 06-20-2008
I read the article. I just hope he does what it takes to combat what I think is 8 years of a relative media blackout. If you don't like him, you're not going to like him Evan. We all know this. If you want to pick and choose snippets of news against a certain candidate, I'll be happy to join in the fray.
To end my dispute, yes, he said he would take the public money and now he went back on it. I'm still voting for him and I hope this, in the end, lets his campaign reach out to voters who've been neutered by Fox news for 8 years.
- Evan - 06-20-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:I read the article. I just hope he does what it takes to combat what I think is 8 years of a relative media blackout.so you suport manipulating the public in any way as long as its working towards an overall agenda?
wait, what were you guys accusing the current administration of?
what happened to "change" ?
what happened to "new government" ?
what happened to less corporate and private influence in government?
- JackoliciousLegs - 06-20-2008
I guess all that stuff is out the window. So much for his shiny reputation. He's definitely not as perfect as McCain and he'll probably start taking money from lobbyists and big corporations now. I guess I'll change my vote now...
- Apoc - 06-20-2008
Evan Wrote:what difference does it make if I "like" them? Im not looking for best friends forever, Im looking for a representative who reflects my views, ideas, and opinions.
I'm trying to understand if you find character flaws in only the people with whom you don't have the same views as... or if your assessment goes for parties. If you're looking for a representative who reflects your ideas, then you should judge all parties on only those merits, not resort to character issues to discredit the "other guy".
Evan Wrote:but since Im just "hating", why dont you engage the issue, and tell me why my interpretation of the situation is wrong. :roll:
I don't care to get into a political he/she said because it's way too early to be arguing about this stuff. I was just curious if you could not hate a liberal or could bash a conservative at a high level. I'd ask the inverse of the dirty hippie Jack. :wink:
- JackoliciousLegs - 06-20-2008
Apoc Wrote:I'd ask the inverse of the dirty hippie Jack. :wink:I think that the ability to self-criticize is a very important personality trait and that it goes well with a side of flexibility.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mmsports.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7471">http://www.mmsports.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7471</a><!-- m -->
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Fuck the hippies. If these are the people that are hippies, I donÔÇÖt like them at all. They are wastes of space. They are trust fund babies that donÔÇÖt realize their privilege, and squander their talent and their parentsÔÇÖ wealth on drugs. They are morally reprehensible people who donÔÇÖt deserve any respect.
- Evan - 06-20-2008
it doesnt count unless you replace 'hippies' with 'liberals' Jack
Apoc Wrote:I'm trying to understand if you find character flaws in only the people with whom you don't have the same views as... or if your assessment goes for parties. If you're looking for a representative who reflects your ideas, then you should judge all parties on only those merits, not resort to character issues to discredit the "other guy".Are you paying attention Chris? Im not talking about character flaws, Im holding Obama accountable to the things he says, the promises he makes, his voting record, and his policy.
Tell me exactly how do you interpret that as some kind of nitpicking character flaws to discredit?