Who will you vote for?
Barack Hussein Obama
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John Sidney McCain
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Hopefully this is allowed
#1
I didn't read the do's and don't of posting so here goes:

Barack Hussein Obama

or

John Sidney McCain
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

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#2
Neither.

What's the purpose of include Obama's middle name and not McCain's? It seems like you're trying to stir something up...
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#3
I don't know McCains middle name. I read his book and didn't recall any mention of it. If you know it I will add it. I knew Barack's middle name.....

I am always trying to stir something up.
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#4
Are you feeling better now? The internet is a wonderful thing......
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#5
I may boycott voting this year. You should add a third option in the poll.
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#6
I'll admit I haven't paid as much care and attention to this years election process and the candidates as I could have, but....

Neither, really. My understanding is that Obama is way far left-wing, and McCain is basically a liberal democrat-"conservative". Truth be told I no longer have any real faith in our two-party system.

If someone could provide an objective analysis on the two, I'd appreciate it...I've tried searching and reading when I can but "objective" is the key word here and is rarely found. I am glad that Hillary is out however.
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#7
Originally Posted by Barack Obama Wrote:As president, I will end misguided defense policies and stand with Caucus for Priorities in fighting special interests in Washington. First, I'll stop spending $9 billion a month in Iraq. I'm the only major candidate who opposed this war from the beginning -- and as president, I will end it. Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems,and I will institute an independent defense priorities board to ensure that the Quadrennial Defense Review is not used to justify unnecessary spending. Third, I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop new nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material, and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals. You know where I stand.

There are obviously many other topics but I'm not sure I'm on board with this. BTW, The AEGIS missile system was proven not too long ago in a fairly well publicized shooting down of a satellite. Perhaps he missed that.
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#8
Lots of comments but no votes. Those of you that are not participating in the electoral process are missing one of the great privileges that many have died to create and preserve. There may be a time when you can't vote, then you will miss it (ask my brother).

If you don't vote, I hope I never hear you criticize the individual that does get elected.
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#9
Btw, Aegis intercepted a test missle today in the last stages before impact, great success.
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#10
Where's the third "Can we please have a do-over" option?

I'm serious. I don't want to vote for either of them. If you're supposed to vote my conscience, I can't in good conscience vote at all!

I mean, George "No Nation Building" Bush has already proved that you can say whatever the fuck you want and have it not mean jack shit.
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#11
Ole Wrote:If you don't vote, I hope I never hear you criticize the individual that does get elected.

Want to come down from your ivory tower now?
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#12
Third, I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop new nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material, and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals. You know where I stand.

I think it's hilarious the phrase "hair-trigger alert" is used here. It's like the launch button is uncovered, and just waiting on someone to set their coffee cup on it. This is another bunch of obama rhetoric that doesnt actually mean anything. The total arsenal we have compared to russia is about 1/3, albeit probably more sophisticated weapons, and more powerful. Dismantling is already going on at a pretty rapid pace. I guess he missed the last 20 years when our stockpile has dropped to around 5500 known weapons. "The World" already has nuclear weapons, so I'm afraid this little fairytale is about 70 years too late.

Points on some of the previous things in that post that are more rhetoric: When the war in iraq started, obama was in no more of a position to oppose the war than you, or I, or cindy sheehan...space is already weaponized, and finally, while he's at the negotiation table with russia and china about the nukes, I hope he gets them to slow down their conventional future weapons programs too, and maybe he can get al qaeda to stop teaching terrorists advanced tactics so taht the next time we have a skirmish, our troops are still at 2008 levels. Brilliant! </rant>
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#13
It must be that time again... please note that I didn't start this one.. for once.

John Wrote:What's the purpose of include Obama's middle name and not McCain's? It seems like you're trying to stir something up...
Yeeup. Fine display of ignorance if you ask me.
Goodspeed Wrote:I'll admit I haven't paid as much care and attention to this years election process and the candidates as I could have, but.... Neither, really. My understanding is that Obama is way far left-wing, and McCain is basically a liberal democrat-"conservative"... If someone could provide an objective analysis on the two, I'd appreciate it...
Obama is hardly a far left wing, and McCain is nowhere near a liberal democrat conservative. I'll do my best to give my analysis.
Ole Wrote:If you don't vote, I hope I never hear you criticize the individual that does get elected.
Agreed.
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Where's the third "Can we please have a do-over" option? I'm serious. I don't want to vote for either of them. If you're supposed to vote my conscience, I can't in good conscience vote at all! I mean, George "No Nation Building" Bush has already proved that you can say whatever the fuck you want and have it not mean jack shit.
That sucks that you feel hopeless and without representation. I know that a lot of Repubs feel betrayed by the party since the Neocons seemed to have hijacked it and moved it away from more traditional conservatism Undecided
HAULN-SS Wrote:I guess he missed the last 20 years when our stockpile has dropped to around 5500 known weapons....
He wants to continue that trend.
HAULN-SS Wrote:When the war in iraq started, obama was in no more of a position to oppose the war than you, or I, or cindy sheehan
You are misinformed. Actually, he was a state senator, unlike you, or I, or that crazy woman. She's actually running for congress in my discrict... :roll:
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#14
personal notes are in parens. I filtered these points out. I hope you find them interesting.

[Image: 180px-McCainInDenverMay29Of2008.jpg]
John McCain
-McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958
-While generally adhering to conservative principles, McCain established a reputation as a political maverick for disagreeing with his party on several key issues.
-In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years. In mid-1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well. (A-Mazing.)
-Starting in 1994, he worked with Democratic Wisconsin Senator Russ Feingold on campaign finance reform; their McCain-Feingold bill would attempt to put limits on "soft money". Despite sympathetic coverage in the media, initial versions of the McCain-Feingold Act were filibustered and never came to a vote. The term "maverick Republican" became a label frequently applied to McCain. (for not wanting to take money from big business? What a maverick!)
-In May 2001, McCain was one of only two Senate Republicans to vote against the Bush tax cuts. (sounds more maverick...y. Too bad it was shortlived. See below)
-He stated that Iraq was "a clear and present danger to the United States of America", and voted accordingly for the Iraq War Resolution in October 2002. He predicted that U.S. forces would be treated as liberators by a large number of the Iraqi people.
-Breaking from his 2001 and 2003 votes, McCain supported the Bush tax cut extension in May 2006
-On October 3, 2005, McCain introduced the McCain Detainee Amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill for 2005, and the Senate voted 90ÔÇô9 to support the amendment. It prohibits inhumane treatment of prisoners, including prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, by confining military interrogations to the techniques in the U.S. Army Field Manual on Interrogation. (again shortlived... apparently, torture is only bad if the army does it)
-On Iraq, McCain's goal is that by 2013 most of the servicemen and women will have returned, the Iraq War will have been won, and Iraq will be a functioning democracy
-Last month, he voted against funding Veteran's educations. (Obama didn't understand)


[Image: 180px-Barack_Obama_in_New_Hampshire.jpg]
Barack Obama
-He is the first African American to be the presumptive presidential nominee of any major American political party. (which we all know)
-He is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School
-He served in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004.
-He was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review
-Since announcing his presidential campaign in February 2007, Obama has emphasized ending the Iraq war, increasing energy independence, decreasing the influence of lobbyists, and providing universal health care as top national priorities.
-Obama taught constitutional law part-time at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004.
-In 2001, as co-chairman of the bipartisan Joint Committee on Administrative Rules, Obama supported Republican Governor Ryan's payday loan regulations and predatory mortgage lending regulations aimed at averting home foreclosures
-Obama voted in favor of the Energy Policy Act of 2005
-In 2005, he cosponsored the "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act" introduced by Republican John McCain of Arizona.
-In September 2006, Obama supported a related bill, the Secure Fence Act, authorizing construction of fencing and other security improvements along the United StatesÔÇôMexico border.
-In an effort to increase transparency in government, he cosponsored the "CoburnÔÇôObama Transparency Act" authorized the establishment of USAspending.gov (tracks where govt money goes)
-In January 2007, Obama (and Feingold) moved to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act," which was signed into law in September 2007.
-Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007," a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.
-Obama sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act"
-He has sat on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs. He is the Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.
-He defended the New Deal social welfare policies of FDR, associating Republican proposals to establish private accounts for Social Security with social Darwinism.
-He supports universal healthcare
-His tax plan would eliminate taxes for senior citizens with incomes of less than $50,000 a year, repeal income tax cuts for those making over $250,000 as well as the capital gains and dividends tax cut, close corporate tax loopholes, lift the $102,000 cap on Social Security taxes, restrict offshore tax havens, and simplify filing of income tax returns by pre-filling wage and bank information already collected by the IRS.
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#15
Nice writeup...touched on a lot of points I've read of and a few new ones. What I meant by my previous comment is that I find Obama to be very idealist, and McCain to be on the more-liberal spectrum of his party as you noted, and I knew, that he goes against conservative traditions at times. I know one issue that he wavers on is gun control, which to me is surprising.

I still don't know who the lesser of two evils would be, but I do know what I'd like to see happen...a scaled end to Iraq (billions of $ a month and we still have Katrina destruction? Fail), the end of huge and inefficient government projects and departments like Homeland Security, and a decrease in frivolous spending, among other things. I agree with Rex in that election speeches no longer necessarily lead to results, so I can't tell who would be the best actor for my causes.

Still, based solely on physical and personality traits, Obama wins. McCain is 72 years old and his smile scares me.
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#16
You'll never hear me complain once about our president if I don't vote. Don't give me that played out rhetoric. I voted against George Bush every single fucking time he got elected and it didn't do a damn bit of good. There are way too many retards in America that are easily swayed by a few minutes they spend each day listening to the media and the hour and a half they spend each Sunday in church.

Note that this isn't a stab at religion, I'm an extremely spiritual person believe it or not... but I have no faith in American's ability to judge what's proper for our future and I don't think we're going to be in any better of a situation if either one of those faggots gets elected to office.
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#17
WRXtranceformed Wrote:You'll never hear me complain once about our president if I don't vote. Don't give me that played out rhetoric. I voted against George Bush every single fucking time he got elected and it didn't do a damn bit of good. There are way too many retards in America that are easily swayed by a few minutes they spend each day listening to the media and the hour and a half they spend each Sunday in church.

Note that this isn't a stab at religion, I'm an extremely spiritual person believe it or not... but I have no faith in American's ability to judge what's proper for our future and I don't think we're going to be in any better of a situation if either one of those faggots gets elected to office.

I think the "played out rhetoric" is your own interpretation. You will get little to no respect from many (if that means anything to you) if you do bitch about the process yet don't do anything about it.

Interesting that you call people that vote retards yet find it necessary to use so many colorful words to try getting your point across.

So far there has been some good discussion, less a few.
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#18
Ole Wrote:
WRXtranceformed Wrote:You'll never hear me complain once about our president if I don't vote. Don't give me that played out rhetoric. I voted against George Bush every single fucking time he got elected and it didn't do a damn bit of good. There are way too many retards in America that are easily swayed by a few minutes they spend each day listening to the media and the hour and a half they spend each Sunday in church.

Note that this isn't a stab at religion, I'm an extremely spiritual person believe it or not... but I have no faith in American's ability to judge what's proper for our future and I don't think we're going to be in any better of a situation if either one of those faggots gets elected to office.

I think the "played out rhetoric" is your own interpretation. You will get little to no respect from many (if that means anything to you) if you do bitch about the process yet don't do anything about it.

Interesting that you call people that vote retards yet find it necessary to use so many colorful words to try get your point across.

So far there has been some good discussions, less a few.

I think you're mistaken "Ole" or you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I don't think people who vote are retards, or the process of voting is retarded. I think the majority of people who go through the process (unfortunately, this majority is driving the major decisions) are undereducated, emotionally driven, and / or simply have no clue what it takes for an individual to bring our country back to where it needs to be.

My colorful language comes mostly from my background in construction management Tongue Anyone here who actually knows me or has hung out with me knows I curse like a sailor, so please don't question my intelligence. Shit, last night I was giving my boy's ex-gf shit at the bar (she just got into med-school) by telling her that my SAT scores were better than hers when I took them completely stoned out of my face :lol:
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#19
asteele2 Wrote:
Ole Wrote:If you don't vote, I hope I never hear you criticize the individual that does get elected.

Want to come down from your ivory tower now?

I'll come down to open a can of [Image: woopass.JPG] Big Grin
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#20
asteele2 Wrote:
Ole Wrote:If you don't vote, I hope I never hear you criticize the individual that does get elected.

Want to come down from your ivory tower now?
That's not ivory tower at all. If you don't vote, which only takes at best an afternoon of your time, you don't have any right to complain. Voter apathy is why we ended up with an awful president in the first place and it is absolutely shameful that we have such low voter turnout.

I also don't get this whole idea about, "I'm not going to vote for either because Ron Paul or whoever didn't get nominated." One of these two men will be president and it would behoove all of us to choose the best one of the two. If you think the two candidates are absolutely equal on everything then yeah, don't vote. But if one guy is even 1% better than the other then you should vote for him.

Truth is there are lots of things that I'd like to see change in this country that neither candidate will address. Ending the war on drugs, fair tax, cutting government waste, tort reform, you name it. But come November, there are only two choices and I'll pick the best of the two. It's not ideal, but nothing dealing with people ever is.

I agree that there needs to be electoral reform but not voting is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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