Acura is for sale...what next?

[bassmangrammy]

I'm very close to buying a Boxster. But...I thought I'd open it up for banter about what I should buy.

Here are the rules:

1. The car has to be European and a mark I sell.
2. My lean is towards mountain driving (add: cornering) versus drag racing. Skid pad > HP.
3. The NADA book has to be $25,000 or under.
4. The car must be available in the US. I'm not importing anything.
5. Obviously, a manual transmission must be available. (So, no CLK)
6. Joy of Driving > Status > A giant wing

Let the banter begin. 8)

[Mike]

mountain driving? you mean cornering? honestly i can't stand when people say mountain driving or canyon runs... argh....

in order:
porsche 911 (964)
boxster
audi s4 (v6)
e36 m3

[bassmangrammy]

Cornering > Drag

[Mike]

thanks

ps i hope you have a hookup (and assume you do at the dealership) for repairs on any of those cars

[.RJ]

M3. Is there really a question?

[Mike]

i put the m3 so low because i considered all the nickle-and-dime repairs... since he's at a dealership, i'd rank it above the s4.

[.RJ]

i put the m3 so low because i considered all the nickle-and-dime repairs...

lol, and the porsches and S4 are any better?

[Mike]

the boxster? yes
the old 911? no, only put on because he works where he does.
the s4? it's newer, shouldn't have as many problems in the next few years

[CaptainHenreh]

the s4? it's newer, shouldn't have as many problems in the next few years

Ha!

[.RJ]

the s4? it's newer, shouldn't have as many problems in the next few years

You're high

[CaptainHenreh]

the s4? it's newer, shouldn't have as many problems in the next few years

You're high

Just another example of Mike NKWTFHTA.

[G.Irish]

The Boxster would be cool but if you ever want to do a track event you'll have to put up with all the roll bar nonsense. Then there's the fact that the engine is a bitch to get to.

My vote would be for an E36 M3. Lots of parts, plenty fast, easy to live with. Since you have a line on parts and service and E30 would be cool, but parts are still going to be expensive anyway.

The Porsche 964 might not be a bad choice either. Less practical, but probably a higher performance car. OTOH, I think you'd have an easier time modifiying/upgrading the M3.

[.RJ]

easy to live with

Definately.

The car wont be as cool if you always have nagging issues to deal with, or parts are $$ (P-car = E36 x 4 for everything). Some day, I will have a 73 911 though

[Mike]

the s4? it's newer, shouldn't have as many problems in the next few years

You're high

Just another example of Mike NKWTFHTA.

you're right, i only have close friends with both and the m3 has a shitload more issues RIGHT NOW, mainly because it's older. the s4? yeah it'll have some issues down the road, but RIGHT NOW the m3 needs a new water pump, the rear shocks are ass, the power windows are shot, and it has all kinds of errors popping up.

[WRXtranceformed]

Insuring any of those cars isn't going to be cheap, but for me, insuring an S4 was going to be insanely expensive... I've heard that S4s can be monsters when modified, but I've also heard that they go boom pretty easily. I guess that's true for any car, but that would be an expensive repair bill. I was overall very impressed with the S4 that I test drove; the shifting was smooth but the power was definitely lacking for a twin turbo setup. A friend of ours says that Audis are the poor man's Porsche. I don't know if I agree, but I'd go bigger if I was looking for a car in that luxury class.

I'd say go with a BMW of some type. My guess is that they'd be cheaper to repair (and I'll use cheaper lightly) than a Porsche, and I agree that an M3 would also be a better platform for modifying.

[G.Irish]

the s4? it's newer, shouldn't have as many problems in the next few years

You're high

Just another example of Mike NKWTFHTA.

you're right, i only have close friends with both and the m3 has a shitload more issues RIGHT NOW, mainly because it's older. the s4? yeah it'll have some issues down the road, but RIGHT NOW the m3 needs a new water pump, the rear shocks are ass, the power windows are shot, and it has all kinds of errors popping up.

Even tho Chris' S4 hasn't taken a dump yet I think Wang had plenty of problems with his and over the past couple of years Audis in general have been particularly prone to electrical gremlins. So statistical speaking, even though your sample of two cars gives the S4 the edge, overall the M3 is probably the more reliable car.

As for performance the S4 is a rather heavy beast (3700 lbs), even in comparison to the M3 (~3200 lbs). From that fact alone I'd choose the M3.

[Dave]

E36 M3 without question, as long as I get to drive it :twisted:

[BLAIR]

id say the e36 m3 or s4. i have alot of freinds with both of those. and they are both impressive. i think im just more partial to the s4 cause my freind has a very sick one. s4's dont seem to have many problems besides the turbos blowing, and thats not happening to stock cars (and thats a pain cause you have to pull the motor out to switch em) me and my freinds have had the motor out of his s4 4 times with just turbo problems. but we have it down pretty good and theres no beating his 450plus HP

boxters are kinda like the rich mans wifes car.. cool but kinda girly

964's are the shit though.. but with 25k you could even get a 993. but maintainance on any porsche is crazy especially if its a daily driver.. i wouldnt recomend it unless you have a deater car or alot of money to fix em

[ScottyB]

I've heard that S4s can be monsters when modified, but I've also heard that they go boom pretty easily.

yes, if you try to put over 500 horses through the stock internals. the S4 came stock severly underrated in the power department because, as is usual Audi practice, they wanted to make sure the car could be upgraded cheaply and easily over the life of the model if the company chose too, probably through the use of engine software. as it was, however, the S had ample power to beat many competing marques and make most driver's happy, so it was never upgraded. a $500 chip sold by many companies will gain you 50 horsepower and 75 lb. feet of torque, totally reliable given you don't add in a MBC to try to hold an overboost situation. if you have the money to afford the RS4 twin turbo upgrade, you can push past the RS's 380 horses straight into 450+ horsepower territory with a few more supporting modifications. 475 lb. feet of torque is also very realistic, and the transmission only needs an upgraded clutch to deal with this power. no internal mods. low 12's are in the bag. Alot of S4 myths keep circulating around here, so i'm going to clear a few up.

B5 S4's (the twin turbo model) do not suffer nearly the electrical problems of past audis. they are, in fact, quite reliable. the biggest problems involve coking the stock small turbos due to idiots not using turbo timers and/or common sense and of course the coil pack dillema which, despite it's rather large hit on the VW's, affected Audis with much less severity. there are also a few reported problems with the TPS. not sure about the situation with the water pump either, in 1.8t's of some years the pump has a plastic impeller that is known to disintegrate. im pretty sure S4's have a metal impeller.

B5 S4's are not 3700 pounds. that would be the B6 (V 8 ), which is closer to 3800 i think. B5's come in around 3600. still heavy, but not ridiculous at all by today's standards. with a few heavy ass parts taken out of the picture (stock wheels, power seats, and some other interior junk) you can be down to 3300 to 3200 in no time. there is a guy on audiworld.com who autocrosses with an S4 on a nat'l level coming in at nearly 3000 pounds

B5 S4's DO understeer, albeit to a fairly impressive .88+ skidpad g's , although according to c&d (sept. '99) they only got .83 out of it. i would say anywhere from .83 to .88 depending on the magazine reviewing it (considering in an earlier issue of r&t, they pulled .86 out of a regular A4 avant wagon). coilovers and a rear sway will totally correct this. or, just watch the S4's, and nowadays the RS6's on the speedvision world cup (i suck, i think this is what it's called) to see that the audi's aren't total pigs.

S4's are fairly expensive to maintain, but let's be honest....what twin turbo car isn't? relative to the other cars being compared, its actually probably about the same. as long as you take good care of the car, it will treat you right.


ok, so with that out of the way, onto my recommendations. i don't like the idea of a 964 911. snap oversteer is not cool. even though Aaron won't be pushing it on the street, its going to be an issue to deal with at some point. as a novice, no offense, this is not a good choice. don't get me wrong i love the cars. but for someone getting into a rwd car, this would be my absolute last recommendation

boxsters are cool. i like the size and generally stellar performance. however, like G mentioned, the engine is a bitch to get to. if you don't like looking at and/or interacting with it on a hands-on basis, its probably a good choice.

E36's are hot. rwd is hot. straight sixes are hot. practicality is hot. i don't know shit about their repair history so i will continue to think they are hot, and becoming cheaper.

you know my stance on the S4 (i'm biased, so what). its a solid 4 door sporty car without a doubt. has a touch of luxury too, and all weather superiority. it is heavy, but that is it's only major downfall. the modifications you can make to that car will cause p-car owners to scurry for cover. like the bimmer, they are also becoming quite low priced, around 15-20k.

p.s, i think all these cars will be bitches for insurance, so i'm not even going to consider it a competitive aspect of this comparison.

[Feersty]

Yeah I looked at insurance on a M3. It was something to the affect of $491 a month, with one speeding ticket and a tint violation. A Civic hatch looks more and more appealing, until I have a decent amount of money to get something nice.