Official MM Firearms Thread

[Kaan]

Bummer about your (apparently) triangular handguard cap, makes for a little extra work to do the SL handguards, which you should do post-haste because they are dope as hell.

Add reflex optic and an SSA-E post-haste.

Yep, triangular. I'll have to cop a feel on the SL, I love the standard ones as is though. Straight to a Geissele huh? Again, something I'd like to try, that's a lot of coin. I'll be practicing with & getting used to the irons for a good while before I look into optics too

If you would have talked to me... i would have told you to free float from the git go. you like the finer things in life, this translates to firearms as well. but then again i have too much money in my ARs :thumbup:

[CaptainHenreh]

Straight to a Geissele huh? Again, something I'd like to try, that's a lot of coin. I'll be practicing with & getting used to the irons for a good while before I look into optics too

Repeat after me:

Buy once, Cry once.

Also, and I'm not dismissing you but once you learn how iron sights work, and that won't take long, you'll probably never use them again. Reflex optics are so much faster, easier, that you'll never even bother flipping up your sights. Further, with a cowitness setup, you don't have to make the choice, you can use both if you want (although I don't know why you would.)

I honestly can't remember the last time I looked down a set of rifle sights. :dunno:

[Goodspeed]

Good point, I'm just going to pace myself (and my wallet) for now, but will be looking at optics before too long.

Kaan - I've got a few more lowers in case I want to build that baller free-float setup in the future, I wanted to keep this one simple/"ordinary" and budget friendly for my first go round. But, before I get to another AR build I might have to cave and pick up another item I've long wanted - I held one recently and it was a near-spiritual experience.

[WRXtranceformed]

^^ I know Rexy isn't a bullpup fan but I have had a Tavor SAR on my want list for a really long time. It sits either right after or right before a heirloom grade over under (1911 is at the top)

[CaptainHenreh]

But, before I get to another AR build I might have to cave and pick up another item I've long wanted - I held one recently and it was a near-spiritual experience.

Well I can tell you the only real option for that now is an honest to gawd Steyr. MSAR is dead, and good fucking riddance to their terrible customer service and godawful products.

But if you're gonna shell out 2 grand on a shitty relic of the 70's that even the Kiwis dumped in favor of an AR, I mean, be my guest. But they suck pretty hard.

[Goodspeed]

But if you're gonna shell out 2 grand on a shitty relic of the 70's that even the Kiwis dumped in favor of an AR, I mean, be my guest. But they suck pretty hard.

I know they have their drawbacks, but...I just lust for them. I fall pretty hard for things that are ergonomically perfect for me, and holding one felt like my upper body just morphed into a 5.56 dispenser. I haven't handled a Tavor yet but I know they pretty much have the AUG licked at this point.

[CaptainHenreh]

But if you're gonna shell out 2 grand on a shitty relic of the 70's that even the Kiwis dumped in favor of an AR, I mean, be my guest. But they suck pretty hard.

I know they have their drawbacks, but...I just lust for them. I fall pretty hard for things that are ergonomically perfect for me, and holding one felt like my upper body just morphed into a 5.56 dispenser. I haven't handled a Tavor yet but I know they pretty much have the AUG licked at this point.

Again, you do you and all, but my MSAR felt great holding it, shooting it (although the trigger was :vomit: ) but as soon as I had to shoot on the move, change a magazine, from concealment, transition from strong to weak, transition to secondary, or clear a malf...the warts of the platform REALLY started to show. Also I hated my shredded knuckles from being raped by the optic when charging the weapon, and I really started to hate the "you can hold it any way you want...as long as it's with the VFG" which, while initially comfortable, doesn't permit a large amount of flexibility.

Bullpups have their niche, but I think as a general purpose fighting rifle the small form factor is mostly negated by the difficult controls.

[WRXtranceformed]

But if you're gonna shell out 2 grand on a shitty relic of the 70's that even the Kiwis dumped in favor of an AR, I mean, be my guest. But they suck pretty hard.

I know they have their drawbacks, but...I just lust for them. I fall pretty hard for things that are ergonomically perfect for me, and holding one felt like my upper body just morphed into a 5.56 dispenser. I haven't handled a Tavor yet but I know they pretty much have the AUG licked at this point.

Again, you do you and all, but my MSAR felt great holding it, shooting it (although the trigger was :vomit: ) but as soon as I had to shoot on the move, change a magazine, from concealment, transition from strong to weak, transition to secondary, or clear a malf...the warts of the platform REALLY started to show. Also I hated my shredded knuckles from being raped by the optic when charging the weapon, and I really started to hate the "you can hold it any way you want...as long as it's with the VFG" which, while initially comfortable, doesn't permit a large amount of flexibility.

Bullpups have their niche, but I think as a general purpose fighting rifle the small form factor is mostly negated by the difficult controls.

Do you feel the same way about the SAR? Or have you not had a chance to put it through paces. Just curious if you have shot it (I haven't)

[Goodspeed]

All good points Rex that I hadn't really considered. Funnily enough, my first (albeit short) "carbine course" experience was with the SAR-21 in Singapore back in '05. I spent an afternoon on the SG military's urban training course but was a total noob and didn't appreciate the difficulties of running and gunning with a bullpup, and I had only experienced my first AR earlier that same day (and a M249 on full mf'in auto which was awesome). So the platform definitely has its drawbacks, but it could possibly serve as an extremely expensive casual plinker

Speaking of courses, I'm thinking of signing up for a Sentinel Concepts course in WV next June, if anyone else is interested. Kinda bummed how far out it is but I've heard really good things about "Yeti".

[CaptainHenreh]

Do you feel the same way about the SAR? Or have you not had a chance to put it through paces. Just curious if you have shot it (I haven't)

I assume you mean the Tavor, and not the SAR-21 Goody was talking about. Some of the same considerations have to be given to the tavor, but the charging handle placement, safety, mag release all seem a little more well thought out. The ejection pattern of the Tavor is a little better, and a simple deflector will keep you from eating brass. The same would work for the AUG, except nobody really makes one that mounts with confidence. (They all "snap on" to the AUG body.) And oh man, the trigger on the Tavor is eleventy million times better than the AUG. The Aug has the worst trigger I've ever fired, and I've fired a NY legal Glock.

I'd also give a reliability nod to the Tavor, and it's definitely lighter and handier. 40 years of weapons development is nothing to sneeze at and the Tavor has been put through some harsh, harsh, bullshit and let's be honest: Fuckin' israelis gotta use 'em all the goddam time whereas when was the last time Austria went to war? Of all the bullpups available, the Tavor is definitely the best, followed by the F2000, then the AUG, BQZ, L85, SAR-21 and finally the Famas which is hot garbage. but give me the choice between, say, a KAC SR-15 11.5" SBR and anything on the above list and I'll take the Knights 10 times out of 10.

[WRXtranceformed]

Do you feel the same way about the SAR? Or have you not had a chance to put it through paces. Just curious if you have shot it (I haven't)

I assume you mean the Tavor, and not the SAR-21 Goody was talking about. Some of the same considerations have to be given to the tavor, but the charging handle placement, safety, mag release all seem a little more well thought out. The ejection pattern of the Tavor is a little better, and a simple deflector will keep you from eating brass. The same would work for the AUG, except nobody really makes one that mounts with confidence. (They all "snap on" to the AUG body.) And oh man, the trigger on the Tavor is eleventy million times better than the AUG. The Aug has the worst trigger I've ever fired, and I've fired a NY legal Glock.

I'd also give a reliability nod to the Tavor, and it's definitely lighter and handier. 40 years of weapons development is nothing to sneeze at and the Tavor has been put through some harsh, harsh, bullshit and let's be honest: Fuckin' israelis gotta use 'em all the goddam time whereas when was the last time Austria went to war? Of all the bullpups available, the Tavor is definitely the best, followed by the F2000, then the AUG, BQZ, L85, SAR-21 and finally the Famas which is hot garbage. but give me the choice between, say, a KAC SR-15 11.5" SBR and anything on the above list and I'll take the Knights 10 times out of 10.

Correct I meant the Tavor. Yeah I figure if the IDF uses them there must be some truth behind the reviews. I know Gieselle and I think a few other companies have released trigger kits for them, so you could probably make them even better. A Tavor SAR with a factory 9mm conversion kit? Oh what fun :thumbup:

[V1GiLaNtE]

Goodspeed brings up a great point. Kaan/Rex.. When the HELL are we doing another carbine course?? I know life moves fast, but those have been famous last words going on 3 years now.

[JPolen01]

Why is everyone so upset about VA no longer honoring other states CCW permits? Seems like a pretty easy way for Virginia to control the CCW process and who qualifies in their own state.

[Kaan]

Why is everyone so upset about VA no longer honoring other states CCW permits? Seems like a pretty easy way for Virginia to control the CCW process and who qualifies in their own state.

because it is going to pit our state vs. others. and we legal gun owners are going to take the punishment for it by losing reciprocity in the other states.

[Kaan]

if you want to solve the "problem" make it a national conceal permit OR lobby in other states to increase their standards. this move is mostly an attack on the VAs with a conceal permit.

[JPolen01]

Why is everyone so upset about VA no longer honoring other states CCW permits? Seems like a pretty easy way for Virginia to control the CCW process and who qualifies in their own state.

because it is going to pit our state vs. others. and we legal gun owners are going to take the punishment for it by losing reciprocity in the other states.

So go take the course, etc in the other state you wish to carry in. How hard can it be? A one day in person class or maybe something online? Sorry bout it. How often are you in another state (that had reciprocity before) that you are worried about losing it in (serious question)?

[JustinG]

Why is everyone so upset about VA no longer honoring other states CCW permits? Seems like a pretty easy way for Virginia to control the CCW process and who qualifies in their own state.

because it is going to pit our state vs. others. and we legal gun owners are going to take the punishment for it by losing reciprocity in the other states.

So go take the course, etc in the other state you wish to carry in. How hard can it be? A one day in person class or maybe something online? Sorry bout it. How often are you in another state (that had reciprocity before) that you are worried about losing it in (serious question)?

A lot of states only allow residents to apply for CCW, hence the need for reciprocity.

[Kaan]

Why is everyone so upset about VA no longer honoring other states CCW permits? Seems like a pretty easy way for Virginia to control the CCW process and who qualifies in their own state.

because it is going to pit our state vs. others. and we legal gun owners are going to take the punishment for it by losing reciprocity in the other states.

So go take the course, etc in the other state you wish to carry in. How hard can it be? A one day in person class or maybe something online? Sorry bout it. How often are you in another state (that had reciprocity before) that you are worried about losing it in (serious question)?

I drove to GA this year carrying large amounts of cash, bikes, etc for my anniversary. So you are saying i should spend 3-4 extra days to get everything done in NC, SC, and GA... do all the paperwork, finger prints, etc? Ever drive to FL?

I live in an area where i can easily travel to WV, MD, PA, OH, etc. We all know MD is out.

I know i'm not the only one that takes road trips. Hell we will wake up on saturday morning, pack a bag and end up "somewhere."

[JPolen01]

Sounds like you should be writing your senator about federal overhaul of all gun laws so it's consistent in every state.

[JustinG]

Yea.....that'll work.