How bout them skins?

[Maengelito]

i wouldnt have nearly as big a problem with him if he outright said "i'm doing this for all my fantasy owners". i would actually think thats pretty cool.

and the #1 team in my work league does not have brady. i think he's actually 2nd or 3rd, but he's been hit hard by the injury bug.

[Evan]

[Ginger]

What makes video taping the other teams signals different than using oscilloscopes and audio recordings to figure out what firing configuration other manufacturers use to build their F1/MotoGP motors?

[Ginger]

*honest question* ^

I don't follow, or know much about football... I'm just curious as to why it's against the rules.

[mrbaggio]

I believe the NFL rules explicitly state that teams cannot do that.

[Ginger]

Well, yeah, of course they do.

But why?

[.RJ]

I dont get it either - they spend hours reviewing video tape, pictures, plays, etc... whats the difference? If your hand signals suck and can easily be stolen, then change them.

[HAULN-SS]

I thought the controversy was the the NFL rules DIDNT explicitly state you couldnt do it? Or could do it until this year, or something like that. I heard someone saying one time "they should make a rule against that"..thats where this is coming from.

[Ginger]

Maybe we just weren't cut out to be Stick & Ball Heros, RJ....

[ScottyB]

do other teams not tape hand signals, or have they just not been caught?

[Ginger]

Oh, Derek? I don't actually follow football even enough to know what the story is hrug:

[HAULN-SS]

i dont either really. but the way i heard it was kind of a gentlemans agreement to not do it..no explicit rules. maybe that's wrong, i dunno

[HAULN-SS]

they just not been caught

[Evan]

do other teams not tape hand signals, or have they just not been caught?

given the way the pats were caught (by an ex Pats assistant coach now working for another team who didnt want to be cheated on) and the frequency that coaches hop from team to team, there would be many more teams getting busted if this was common occurrence.

the "Everyone else is doing it" is a pretty weak argument and of course a logical fallacy in the first place.

[Hunter]

It is in the rules. You can't tape it. You could look at the other teams signals and try to figure them out, but teams are specifically banned from video taping any signals from the other team.

This prevents teams from stockpiling all the different sets of signals that a team might be using, studying them before the game, then having someone easily figure them out during the game. The could potentially do that while watching it on film as the game goes on and relaying the play calls to the sideline.

Hell, if you know the other team is blitzing from the right side, you just call a screen pass to that side and pick up and easy 15 yards.

[ScottyB]

given the way the pats were caught (by an ex-coach now working for another team who didnt want to be cheated on) and the frequency that coaches hop from team to team, there would be many more teams getting busted if this was common occurrence.

thanks, that's what i was looking for.

as for the motorcycle racing comparison, i think that's a bit different since exhausts can't be anything BUT audible. well, that and it's not illegal to study them :lol:

[.RJ]

Hell, if you know the other team is blitzing from the right side, you just call a screen pass to that side and pick up and easy 15 yards.

How is that different from watching lots of video tape and reading the defense?

[Hunter]

How is that different from watching lots of video tape and reading the defense?

There's a big difference between reading that a team is blitzing and knowing a team is blitzing because you know exactly what play is called. The Skins show blitz and then drop into coverage all the time, trying to make the offense audible. If the offense knows that they are only showing blitz and dropping into coverage, thats a big advantage.

[Ginger]

as for the motorcycle racing comparison, i think that's a bit different since exhausts can't be anything BUT audible. well, that and it's not illegal to study them :lol:

I'm not trying to be directly critical to your point... you're actually the only one that has addressed why so far. I appreciate it I don't know any darn thing about the sport. But if motorcycle noises are nothing but audible, ironically before the 4 stroke era and Ducati's dropping of mufflers Honda prided themselves on a quiet bike, then aren't hand signals nothing but visual?

I guess it feels to me like they're trying to dumb down strategy... it's almost as if they're saying 'we can't keep up with the rate at which we can learn each other... so we'll just make it illegal to do so.' I guess that's OK if it's the way everybody's happy with... but why make a sport intentionally stagnant?

Cycling made a similarly stagnatory ruling years back when monococque design started becoming popular (actually, it was even before then when Graeme Oree started pioneering design in his basement). They decided that bicycles for road racing were required to look like the standard double triangle configuration... I guess they were worried that the sport would become too much about techonology. I don't think that's really the case, but I'm not making the rules... probably for a reason.

[Maengelito]

i dont think the hand signal stealing is really the issue at hand. its the video taping of the hand signals thats illegal. in baseball, players try to steal signals all the time, but then the pitchers and bench coaches will just change it up and basically nullify the stolen info. but you arent setting up plays that are nearly as complex in baseball. if the catcher shows 1 finger for fastball and the opposing team catches on to that, the catcher can show many different hand signals or have an "indicator" to tell the pitcher which of his 3 or 4 different pitches to throw. but defenses in football are well choreographed and tipping off what defensive play basically gives the offense a free play.

i believe currently, the only player on the field thats allowed to have a communicator in his helmet is the quarterback. there was a discussion of allowing the defensive captains to also have one next season and bill bellicheat is one of the coaches to voted to not allow that. that seems kinda shady to me.