Do you jump red lights?
Never
50.00%
5
Some of the time
20.00%
2
All the time
30.00%
3
10 vote(s)
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Jumping red lights on a bicycle
#41
I selectively run them, selectively equating to stopping at about 1 for every 10-15. The only time I don't run them is if it's a very dense area (dense by Harrisonburg standards) due to safety and perception. Otherwise, I use my spider senses to detect cops, drivers on cell phones, or giant SUVs approaching at 88 mph. If I'm not sensing any harm or legal retribution, I'm outta there. Momentum is the biggest reason.
http://www.85xr.com

1985 Merkur XR4Ti Track Car
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#42
I've been linked to this thread and asked for input at least three times now, so I guess it's time to check in. For those that aren't aware, I'm a very active cyclst: I held a district title in 2002, I'm beginning my 5th racing season, I've worked in two bike shops, and spend a significant amount of my time riding. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brag, just convey that I have a significant amount of experience in this arena. Although I ride mountain bikes, I spend the majority of my time on my road bike, at least half of which is on open public roads. Further, I really can't remember that last time that *I* was the subject of a driver's anger. The first thing that *everybody* needs to remember, cyclists and drivers, is that the responsibility of an effective road-sharing relationship falls on both sides of the coin: nobody is expempt.

As a formerly active member of this club, a cyclist, and a driver, I'm pretty disappointed with some of the things I've read in this thread. It's time for everybody to start acting like grown ups.

Before I tackle that topic, though, I'll take my own group under critique: some cyclists treat the road as if they own it. It's not right, it angers drivers, it's adversarial, and it establishes a precedence that the entire sport has to bear. There is a local ride where I am that makes it a habit of breaking more traffic laws than it obeys (and given that a lot of traffic laws are speed-related, that's hard to do)... wearing your team apparel is more than likely to get you ejected from your team. I've never participated and I probably won't. I'll be the first to admit that it's not fair to anybody on the road, and it's dangerous for anybody, drivers included, around. Cyclists need to ride respectively.

To make a direct comment on the topic, I, personally, don't usually run lights. I do a lot riding in relatively dense areas (especially compared to the OP's area) and it's risky for rider and driver alike. There is the occasion that I'll do it, but not when I'm leading a group and it is certainly the exception rather than the rule. As cyclists, we should recognize that drivers are inattentive, unpredictible, and sometimes not visible until the last second. Taking the chance, to me, to conserve momentum just isn't worth it. You risk a ticket, too, if you care about that sort of thing.

In the spirit of continuing to address my own camp before moving on, respectful riding is about more than just waiting at reds. We should ride as unobtrusively as is safely possible on public, especially busy, roads. This means riding just far to the right enough to be recognized as being in the road (drivers: the flip side of this is that you should give us a little room... we don't need a whole lane, just don't scare the shit out of us. You may lose a mirror if you buzz it, but it's going to hurt when I hit the ground), following intersection traffic protocol (yes, I'll pretty frequently slow, but not stop at stop signs... not without getting an affirmative signal from drivers, and not without checking for safety), keeping our tempers in check, and recognizing when we're unfairly blocking traffic. If you're causing congestion, move over a bit or get your group under control as quickly as you safely can.

I hope that addresses most of the concerns expressed. When people find out I ride, this even happened in a meeting at my office once, they often tell me about all of their negative experiences with riders. I'm never really sure what they hope to accomplish: I ride with respect to other users of the road, and I can't go out and change the actions of all the other riders out there. Nobody says to them that all [insert car model here] are assholes, and I don't really see the situation differently.

I've been treating cyclists as a grouping, and that's actually something I take exception to. We may say, as cyclists, that one group causes tons of problems (like, for example, a lot of city riders and/or messengers), not us. The reality is that drivers can't, and don't want to, distinguish between us. Ultimately, I wish drivers would treat each interaction with a cyclist separately. Our club's motorcyclists can comment that they/we are typically treated with whatever preconceptions other people have, whether we fit them or not. Not all motorcyclists ride like assholes, and it's very frustrating when drivers road rage against you because of an experience with somebody else. Likewise, I would encourage all drivers to treat their interactions with bicyclists as individual instances.

It's unrealistic to expect that cycling won't impede traffic flow a little. We appreciate it when you slow a bit for passing and give us a little room. There's a line between a cyclist being arrogant/ignorant to traffic and a small delay. Cyclists should take that into consideration, and some posters have noted that there are those out there that don't. On their behalf, I'm sorry. Since I can't change them, though, the responsibility of safe road use, fair or not, falls to you. And this is where I have a big problem.

It's popular to talk about vigilante justice from behind the wheel of your car. Everybody that's expressed favor of this hunt should be ashamed. Like it or not, cyclists are people. It is not acceptable to buzz somebody as close as possible (what if he swerves to avoid a small road hazard you missed, or gets frightened and tense on the bars, causing unpredictibility, when he hears your tires behind him?), pretend to run somebody down, or otherwise use your car as a weapon. Act like an adult and keep your temper in check.

I've read at least five stories this year, that received national media attention, of cyclists being run down.
Five.

Almost half of the cyclists in those incidents died. Dead. Fucking dead. Get it? That's not funny in any manner of speaking. Doctor Thompson, whom RJ mentioned previously, ran down two cyclists and attempted to run more down on previous occsaions (ultimately, he was convicted on two). The cyclists he ran down were travelling the speed limit, as verified in court by GPS. One nearly lost his nose as a result of passing through the back windshield (it took more than 90 stiches to reattach), and the other suffered a grade three shoulder separation. This is what Thompson told the 911 operator (admitted as evidence in court):

Dr. Christopher Thomspon Wrote:I wanted to teach them a lesson.

Two guys travelling the speed limit, not doing anything wrong.

In Norfolk recently a National Guardsman ran down a cyclist who was riding on the shoulder and proceeded 1.5 miles before turning around. The cyclist died on the scene. Tyler Farrar, a top-shelf professional American rider, nearly lost his father recently when he was struck head on. He was an orthopedic surgeon and is now paralyzed. A couple professional riders I read about, unfortunately most details escape me, were struck from behind while training (just the two of them) and the driver fled the scene. Need I go on?

I've been riding road since before I could drive and, for the first time in my life, I'm scared to go out and train. I don't break traffic laws left and right, but it's apparent that I'm subject to long died in the wool prejudices, anyway.

Using your vehicle as a weapon is a dangerous, irresponsible thing to do. You're more than likely TO kill somebody than not if you hit them. And if you don't, and there's traffic behind you, the rider could fall into it and be run over. Who are you to decide to risk taking somebody else's life because you're angry and inconvenienced? [Evan, I know you're itching to respond to that, but remember that I did my best to address road courtesy above.] If you're seriously doing things like that, it's time to grow up. If you're having a real problem with the way some cyclists are acting, call the police. Justice is not yours to dispense.

Recapping, this is a two sided coin. There are cyclists out there that have respectable-use problems and don't control their tempers. They instigate problems and really do a number on public perception of our hobby, on the whole. It's inappropriate and I wouldn't have the slightest problem if the police started dealing with them more harshly. That said, drivers should start treating their encounters with cyclists as individual instances. Not all of any partuclar group of cyclists act the same way (and saying that they do kind of singles you out as ignorant), and it's unfair to punish one man for another's infraction. Finally, no matter what, nobody should be dealing with these matters themselves. I heard once about a cyclist forcing a driver out of his car. He beat the crap out of the driver and was arreted. Yeah, go ahead, laugh. He was arrested because it was wrong. He should never have acted in such a manner. Likewise, Dr. Thompson will be serving five years for his crimes, will likely lose his license to practice medicine, and is reportedly nearly bankrupt.
When it comes to Ryan Jenkins, the story ends with me putting him in the wall.

2009 Speed Triple | 2006 DR-Z400SM | 1999 CBR600F4 | 1998 Jeep Cherokee

-Ginger
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#43
cliffs notes? Wink
SM #55 | 06 Titan | 12 Focus | 06 Exige | 14 CX-5
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#44
"we're all wrong. why can't we all just get along? i am awesome."
I Am Mike
4 wheels:  '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)

No longer onyachin.
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#45
Took this picture today... seemed timely.

[Image: bikes.jpg]
'76 911S | '14 328xi | '17 GTI | In memoriam: '08 848, '85 944

"Here, at last, is the cure for texting while driving. The millions of deaths which occur every year due to the iPhone’s ability to stream the Kim K/Ray-J video in 4G could all be avoided, every last one of them, if the government issued everyone a Seventies 911 and made sure they always left the house five minutes later than they’d wanted to. It would help if it could be made to rain as well. Full attention on the road. Guaranteed." -Jack Baruth
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#46
Mike Wrote:"we're all wrong. why can't we all just get along? i am awesome."

It would just be a shame to miss the opportunity to deprecate somebody else. Here's a simple one for you: go fuck yourself.
When it comes to Ryan Jenkins, the story ends with me putting him in the wall.

2009 Speed Triple | 2006 DR-Z400SM | 1999 CBR600F4 | 1998 Jeep Cherokee

-Ginger
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#47
Are they running a light? :lol:
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
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#48
You still haven't explained why riding a bike is any different than a motorcycle... And Ginger has like eleventy zillion miles and he disagrees with you so your "you don't ride enough to understand" excuse is crap.
'76 911S | '14 328xi | '17 GTI | In memoriam: '08 848, '85 944

"Here, at last, is the cure for texting while driving. The millions of deaths which occur every year due to the iPhone’s ability to stream the Kim K/Ray-J video in 4G could all be avoided, every last one of them, if the government issued everyone a Seventies 911 and made sure they always left the house five minutes later than they’d wanted to. It would help if it could be made to rain as well. Full attention on the road. Guaranteed." -Jack Baruth
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#49
If you havent figured it out by now, then I dont know what to say. Its not like any of us are on some moral high ground here.
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
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#50
I've figured out that you're full of shit 'cause you have convenient reasons not to try and explain it... but that's about it. I'm a little slow.
'76 911S | '14 328xi | '17 GTI | In memoriam: '08 848, '85 944

"Here, at last, is the cure for texting while driving. The millions of deaths which occur every year due to the iPhone’s ability to stream the Kim K/Ray-J video in 4G could all be avoided, every last one of them, if the government issued everyone a Seventies 911 and made sure they always left the house five minutes later than they’d wanted to. It would help if it could be made to rain as well. Full attention on the road. Guaranteed." -Jack Baruth
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#51
I dont really feel like arguing about it, one way or the other because you donkeys want to turn it into something that it isnt (i.e. what retarded people on bicycles do). At the end of the day its just not a big deal across a clear intersection :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
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#52
Can your phone get text messages?
'76 911S | '14 328xi | '17 GTI | In memoriam: '08 848, '85 944

"Here, at last, is the cure for texting while driving. The millions of deaths which occur every year due to the iPhone’s ability to stream the Kim K/Ray-J video in 4G could all be avoided, every last one of them, if the government issued everyone a Seventies 911 and made sure they always left the house five minutes later than they’d wanted to. It would help if it could be made to rain as well. Full attention on the road. Guaranteed." -Jack Baruth
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#53
Apoc Wrote:Can your phone get text messages?
Ginger's recieves and sends while he is riding a bike. Can we start a thread on how dumb that is too? :lol:
SM #55 | 06 Titan | 12 Focus | 06 Exige | 14 CX-5
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#54
OMFG. It's illegal to text while driving... why would it be OK to do so when riding?
I Am Mike
4 wheels:  '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)

No longer onyachin.
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#55
Evan Wrote:
Apoc Wrote:Can your phone get text messages?
Ginger's recieves and sends while he is riding a bike. Can we start a thread on how dumb that is too? :lol:

RJ and I were in DC Friday night and saw a guy weaving through traffic while texting, without a helmet. I told him that's what everyone sees when he runs red lights.
'76 911S | '14 328xi | '17 GTI | In memoriam: '08 848, '85 944

"Here, at last, is the cure for texting while driving. The millions of deaths which occur every year due to the iPhone’s ability to stream the Kim K/Ray-J video in 4G could all be avoided, every last one of them, if the government issued everyone a Seventies 911 and made sure they always left the house five minutes later than they’d wanted to. It would help if it could be made to rain as well. Full attention on the road. Guaranteed." -Jack Baruth
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#56
If its a clear intersection no one sees it Wink

[Image: Post-Can_beat_up_yours.gif]
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
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#57
.RJ Wrote:Perspective and experience shapes opinion.
quite wisdomous...

I stop at all lights...Not out of a courtesy to people on the road, but for myself. I don't want to run the chance of getting hit and/or ticketed. It's not that big of a deal for me to wait the extra 2 minutes. That's why I leave at least 10 minutes earlier to account for lights. I will however, go with the cross walk and then get back on the road...kind of a loophole in my opinion.
1991 Miata - Phillis
2003 Xterra - Sarah



"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty speed." Eleanor Roosevelt
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#58
I was once told bikes can act both as pedestrians or cars. They are supposed to follow the laws for which ever role they are playing at the moment. Maybe the law junkies out there can tell me if switching roles is as easy as entering the crosswalk.
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#59
mrbaggio Wrote:I was once told bikes can act both as pedestrians or cars. They are supposed to follow the laws for which ever role they are playing at the moment. Maybe the law junkies out there can tell me if switching roles is as easy as entering the crosswalk.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bikewalkvirginia.org/resources/documents/VirginiaPedestrianRules.pdf">http://www.bikewalkvirginia.org/resources/documents/VirginiaPedestrianRules.pdf</a><!-- m -->
you are correct sir: § 46.2-904.

some other notables:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bikewalkvirginia.org/resources/documents/VirginiaBicycleRules2004.pdf">http://www.bikewalkvirginia.org/resources/documents/VirginiaBicycleRules2004.pdf</a><!-- m -->
§ 46.2-800.: Bike == Car on the road
§ 46.2-839.: passing a bicyclist (including buffer zone, yes it's a law)
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#60
read that carefully, bicycles are permitted to use sidewalks (depending on the county, where I grew up in VA they were not allowed) but that does not classify them as pedestrians. The only time a bicycle is considered a pedestrian is if the rider is walking the bike.

also note § 46.2-905
Any person operating a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, electric powerassisted
bicycle, or moped on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and
place under conditions then existing shall ride as close as safely practicable to the right curb or
edge of the roadway
SM #55 | 06 Titan | 12 Focus | 06 Exige | 14 CX-5
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