Great article on the terribleness of DC area driving

[G.Irish]

I've been in the DC Metro for all of my professional career.

Commute 1: Lorton to Fairfax
Used to take FFX County Parkway, easy 20-30 minute commute

Commute 2: Lorton to Crystal City
10 minute drive to Springfield Metro, 30 minute metro ride

Commute 3: North Arlington to Crystal City
20-35 minute drive down Glebe Road ($10 parking), 15-minute motorcycle ride when I could take HOV lane on 66

Commute 4: North Arlington to Pentagon
20-30 minute drive ($10+ parking at Pentagon City Mall), 45-minute bus+metro ride, 15-minute motorcycle ride (HOV lane

Commute 5: Falls Church to Reston
20-30 minute drive/ride via Toll Road in morning, 30-45 minute return

Commute 6: Falls Church to DC (State Dept)
25-30 minute motorcycle HOV-lane, 45-1 hr walk+metro

Current Commute: Ballston to DC (State Dept)
15-25 minute motorcyle ride HOV-lane, 35-45 walk+metro, 30-45 drive ($10-24 parking)

Commuting hasn't been a huge pain in this area for me, partly because I factor in the commute when I choose a job. Having a motorcycle makes things A LOT easier for me, especially because motorcycle parking is cheap or free. At State I can park in the building (only way contractors can park in bldg other than handicap pass).

I think the key to this area is that you must choose your commutes. Getting paid a few grand extra isn't worth spending an extra 2 hours a day commuting. Especially when you factor in your peace of mind. It's also why I've chosen to live where I live. I've paid more for housing but I spend a lot less time commuting.

As far as driving enjoyment, getting to ride to work is pretty pleasurable for me. Riding in the HOV lane I rarely end up having drivers violate my right of way or otherwise endanger me. I'm only on surface streets in DC briefly, so no problem there.

Driving the Porsche is pretty enjoyable when I do drive it, mostly because of the sound, the direct steering and braking feel. I would love to have more backroads like there are in Harrisonburg but I'm not suffering. Because I'm so close to work (and parking is so expensive) I don't get to drive it every day though.

People bitch and moan about DC but honestly it's not that bad. Yes if you have to commute to DC from Fredericksburg or Loudon county you're gonna have a bad time. But at least we have a fairly expansive metro system (which LA and Atlanta do not) and drivers here are not the worst in the world. A large part of my upbringing was in Panama, so compared to there, DC is a cakewalk . People largely obey traffic laws, the police enforce traffic laws, and people have a sense of self-preservation (except for DC pedestrians maybe).

[SlimKlim]

Yep, I've had to drive through rush hour traffic in Nova/DC a few times to pick up cars. It's enough of a pain in the ass to me that I wouldn't consider moving up there unless I was making double what I am now, and even then I probably wouldn't.

For you Richmond people, how bad is the traffic in Richmond during the morning and evening commutes? I'm planning on getting out of Harrisonburg (finally) next summer and trying to figure out where I want to go. Richmond seems most likely since I know a bunch of people there and I don't think the traffic is quite as bad as nova.

You probably would double your income, that's the reason everyone ends up living here. Granted your cost of living is sky high, but I think you'll find that salary and cost of living often go hand in hand. You can spend less to live in Richmond but you'll also earn less.

I'm talking out of my ass, but I've experienced Richmond rush hour traffic a few times and I think you'll find it's more or less the same as any metro area. It all comes down to choosing where you live and work to manage your commute, if you were in the Richmond 'burbs and worked downtown you're gonna have a bad time, just like trying to commute from Nova all the way into DC every day.

There's no getting around the fact that traffic in NOVA sucks, but I really wouldn't write it out of the equation just because of that. Set up automated searches for jobs in your field in NOVA (not actually DC proper) as well as any other areas you'd consider living. If you get a promising prospect, chances are you'll be able to find an apartment within 10 minutes of your office building. If I wanted to I could get an apartment within a 2-minute walk of my office and I work way out in the 'burbs.

[JPolen01]

I agree with G's last statements. I commuted from Howard County, MD to DC 2 summers ago everyday. It was about 2 hours each way. Being on 95 stop and go for that long sucked, but once I actually hit DC it really wasn't bad. Picking a good route really helps this. Knowing your way around through neighborhoods helps a lot. Driving inside DC is like driving in any city. You need some balls and you need to just go for it sometimes and let other people get out of your way. I think the worst part of the drive (for me and as described by some of you guys) is just getting across the city line from where ever you are coming from.

Edit

Different for me than some of you in NOVA is that I can head out to western Howard County and still hit backroads. Hell, I can hit plenty of backroads right near my house while still being only 10 minutes south of Baldimore. It's a very developed area but there are still plenty of fun roads around.

[Apoc]

I've been in the DC Metro for all of my professional career.

People bitch and moan about DC but honestly it's not that bad.

I used to say the same thing because I chose jobs that were close to where I lived. Eventually, I got tired of being in traffic on weekends and it became a major contributor for us getting out of the area.

[SlimKlim]

There are definitely some car guy perks to living up here as well. There's so much money in Nova that there's bound to be a healthy car scene.

Every Friday night there's a car meet at a Chik-fil-a in Sterling I think that brings out an enormous crowd of American classics. Every Saturday morning in Great Falls there's a Mecca of modern and classic Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, pre-war classics, classic SUVs, WWII vehicles, pretty much anything you can imagine. I've been there and seen cars I didn't even recognize, and cars I never hoped to see/fondle in person, like an F40, Enzo, CGT, Aventador, etc.

Jake has a group of BMW friends that meet up once a week, and a lot of the same crowd does another C&C on Saturday. Jake has gotten buddy buddy with RRT that works on BMW track cars almost exclusively, I've gotten buddy buddy with a shop that build radicals and maintains Ferrari Challenge cars. I have literally stumbled across a private collection of classic cars behind OG racing in Dulles, and the owner invited me in just to wander through the rows of his cars and stare in wonder.

Not that any of that stuff necessarily justifies living up here, but they're things I never would've gotten to experience if I had gone home to live in Roanoke. If you live in Fairfax or anywhere west, you're only about 20 minutes from getting out of NOVA either south or west, and you'll be out of the traffic and back on some decent roads. Lauren and I really like to just take rides out to Leesburg or down past Clifton every once in a while just for some fresh air. You're also only an hour from Summit Point, and there are several organizations that do autocrosses in the area.

[Goodspeed]

All good responses. I think I was getting more at - can you actually own a pure sports car (Elise, FFR Cobra, prepped Miata, etc.) in this area and be happy with it? Sporty DD's are perfectly livable, sure. Part of what got me thinking on this is how rarely I actually see such cars - I used to notice going days in the spring/summer without seeing another Miata, and S2K's and such were really rare for me to see too. But 'Vettes, Mustangs, M3's etc. were/are all over the place, I guess because they "work" better around here.

[WRXtranceformed]

I loved owning the sports cars I owned when I lived in the Leesburg / Purcellville area. You are seconds from fun back paved roads (and unpaved roads / fields if you have a romper) and about 20 minutes from my favorite open driving road of the area, Zulla Road in Middleburg. Even if you live in Sterling or Ashburn there are some fun roads around there that probably aren't too crowded still.

[Beej]

Re: Richmond (traffic, not jobs/cost of living/etc)

I'm talking a bit out of my ass too, as I work from home and my wife works weird hours, but I think it's safe to say it is a completely different beast than DC. I never even think about traffic when I go out, whereas whenever I'm in DC, I have to plan my day around it. Even if I want to leave the DC area on the weekend, it's generally a pain in the ass. At the risk of sounding like someone who got out of DC and is bitter about the area - I'm not, DC treated me well and RVA is doing so too - I think that being there causes you to accept it as part of life. I know that being away from it is a bit liberating - I'm just now realizing that it's something that we never really talk about down here, but feels like a constant subject when I go up to DC. Who knows, maybe my memory has exaggerated it a bit.

Short Pump is never really fun to go to, but it's only really a few blocks, and I kinda dislike that strip in general. Compare it to Tyson's or something.

[SlimKlim]

RE: Goodspeed

Can you? Sure. David DDs his STi on coils in a fixed-back racing seat.

It's just whether or not you want it bad enough. I wouldn't go back to DDing the E36 up here. It's too stiff, too loud, too much of a cop magnet and the clutch is too heavy to ride in traffic. However, one could make the argument that I'm just being a girly little bitch and it's not that bad to drive. I wouldn't consider DDing a modded NA or NB miata or some other hardcore stripped out sports car up here, but I might be more inclined to attempt something like that after I leave the area, maybe.

If you're on the fence about buying another toy, hold onto the XJ for DD duty and get you some cheap little go-kart to have fun with. That's the way to do it up here IMO, have a car like that to drive when you're in the mood for it, and a DD for when you're not.

[Jake]

Re: DDing another Miata. I really enjoyed commuting in mine until I put the racing seats in it. It's small and nimble so you can zip around all the idiots in Camrys, I had good brakes on mine so I could stop before rear-ending a Camry as they got freaked out over a single raindrop, and having the top down made even the worse commute a bit better on a nice day.

I'd do it again, but I'd re-think my modification/upgrade strategy. New suspension (that didn't ride so rough), good tires, nice wheels, and a modern stereo upgrade ... hell yes.

Would I want a Miata as my only car? Not right now. But that's not a NoVA-specific thought.

[Senor_Taylor]

This thread is freaking me out. I do not want to live in the city, and I don't want my kids to grow up in one either (but that's a while from now), but the car scene seems like a great thing to have, better income, more stuff around you to do, etc.

My whole point of coming to college was to be able to get a good job to fund having a couple toys, but what's the point if I can't use them? Cities aren't friendly to people that like to wheel, especially since it's basically illegal in MD.

[SlimKlim]

Take some deep breaths. ;-)

Cabell lives just about balls-deep in the city and still finds time to wheel is XJ. Like I said in my other posts, it all comes down to carefully planning where you live in relation to where you work. If you rent a house in Centreville and then get a job in Chinatown you're gonna have a bad time. If you get a job in Sterling/Dulles and live in Herndon you'll have a 5-10 minute commute.

It will be a lifestyle adjustment, but there's no reason to give up your passion to pursue a career. When your senior year rolls around you'll start blasting job applications out and hopefully figure out where you're gonna work. Then you can figure out where you're going to live. Then you'll figure out how much income you'll have left over, how long your commute is going to be, and what sort of stable you want to set up for yourself.

Everyone is right that traffic even clogs up on weekends, but people like us usually don't spend our weekends swarming the mall and movie theaters like everyone else in NOVA. We head west to get out of the fray and enjoy what we love to do.

I'm sure you'll end up visiting us Alumni up here before you graduate. I'd happily take you around and give you a feel for the area and what it's like to get around avoiding 66, the beltway and Rt 7.

[Jake]

Taylor, you'll be fine. Honestly, Harrisonburg traffic and Charlottesville traffic can suck just as much as NoVA traffic if you hit it at the wrong times. Definitely come up for a weekend sometime and see what this part of the world is all about firsthand before getting all freaky.

[RawrImAMonster]

Re: Richmond (traffic, not jobs/cost of living/etc)

I'm talking a bit out of my ass too, as I work from home and my wife works weird hours, but I think it's safe to say it is a completely different beast than DC. I never even think about traffic when I go out, whereas whenever I'm in DC, I have to plan my day around it. Even if I want to leave the DC area on the weekend, it's generally a pain in the ass. At the risk of sounding like someone who got out of DC and is bitter about the area - I'm not, DC treated me well and RVA is doing so too - I think that being there causes you to accept it as part of life. I know that being away from it is a bit liberating - I'm just now realizing that it's something that we never really talk about down here, but feels like a constant subject when I go up to DC. Who knows, maybe my memory has exaggerated it a bit.

Short Pump is never really fun to go to, but it's only really a few blocks, and I kinda dislike that strip in general. Compare it to Tyson's or something.

That is the impression I've gotten. I've visited friends in Richmond on the weekends a few times and there hasn't really been any traffic going there on Friday evening, all Saturday or leaving Sunday. Granted I've only really ever been in the downtown/surrounding areas like the fan and church hill. Not sure if they're really considered downtown. I'm not that familiar with the city.

Taylor, you'll be fine. Honestly, Harrisonburg traffic and Charlottesville traffic can suck just as much as NoVA traffic if you hit it at the wrong times. Definitely come up for a weekend sometime and see what this part of the world is all about firsthand before getting all freaky.

I have NEVER in almost 10 years of driving in/around Harrisonburg seen it anywhere close to as bad as any of the less than 5 times I've driven in Nova. The only times it ever gets bad is if there is a major wreck on 81 and traffic gets diverted through the city.

[SlimKlim]

That's because when you're just driving through NoVa you're on the worst possible roads you could be on. Most of us who live here don't use 66, 95, 495, 7, or the Toll Road very often, if at all. Unless you get a job IN the city, there's no reason to be on those roads. I commute west on Rt. 50 away from the city and then north on Rt. 28 which is sometimes heavy but very rarely slows down.

I've also learned places I do and do not like to go in this area on the weekends. I don't mind driving west to Centreville, Ashburn, Leesburg etc. If I need to go shopping I either stay in my neighborhood or I drive out to the Leesburg outlets because I would rather fire a nailgun through my own foot that go anywhere near Tyson's Corner. I've learned how to weave through neighborhoods to get from Fairfax to Reston/Vienna/Great Falls without having to take a major road, and there's some really cool stuff to do in those areas. I have to be in the mood, so we don't do it that often, but every once in a while it is pretty cool to hop on the metro and be in the middle of a huge city within the hour, and I'm really not a city guy.

[*insertusernamehere*]

For you Richmond people, how bad is the traffic in Richmond during the morning and evening commutes? I'm planning on getting out of Harrisonburg (finally) next summer and trying to figure out where I want to go. Richmond seems most likely since I know a bunch of people there and I don't think the traffic is quite as bad as nova.

I can't figure out a way to answer this, other than - Go to Rva, you will be fine. Don't even think about traffic, there are so many ways to get around it and its usually moving traffic. I hear other people in Richmond complain about it but I don't see it (they're just bitching cause they have nothing else to bitch about) and i did have to commute during rush hours last summer. My parents don't have any complaints either and my mom does a 30min drive everyday from short pump to chesterfield. There are other cars on the road, but its a healthy dose, nothing like NoVa. In general Chesterfield area is a bit more jammed than other areas for whatever reason.

What say JustinG? Dan? ...are there other MMers in Richmond?

Oh and Taylor, you would probably like Richmond its the weirdest mix between redneck, hipster, rich an snooty, cultural, city, college, "ghetto" and then real ghetto just don't go there. Everyone has their own little section of the town. There was a funny little map of the town that layed it all out

[.RJ]

I think a few of yous have some really good perspective about living here. I really hated this area for a long time and couldnt wait to get out... and I havent left. The job market is good, and will probably always be good - all of the federal contractor money here insulates the area from a lot of the nonsense financial bust & boom cycles that we see. It still happens, but the bottom never fell out like it did in California. The housing market is a really fucking expensive buy in - but you wont lose money and it can generally be rented out for what you have to pay the bank, and you'll have no problem selling down the road. With so many friends and family in the area its been hard to leave, and keeping my commutes short have made it work for me. I've turned out any job offer that would have given me a commute that would have had a sever impact on my quality of life. And now that I've been out of school long enough, I have a lot more flexibility. When I changed jobs last year I had two really good offers within 3 miles of home. I'm living and working in Reston its worked out well. In the short term, I'm not going anywhere, other than moving into a bigger house with a garage in 3 or 4 years - everything I need is nearby, access to getting out of NoVa (cycling, going to Summit, getting to the airport) is pretty painless. Longer term, I'd like to leave the area - I'd love to live abroad for a few years and I think a little further out long term I'd like to move to Charlottesville. We'll see. Right now the positives far outweigh the negatives.

[Senor_Taylor]

I drove through DC on a Sunday last semester, past the washington monument and all that jazz on the way to Dulles... or Reagan. Whatever one is way downtown.

How would that traffic compare to regular traffic?


I don't think I'd mind Richmond all that much, geographically. It's only 2 hours from my hometown and isn't too far north. Some NOVA people are just too northern to deal with.

[WRXtranceformed]

It is funny to me how many VA / NoVA people especially that grew up there stay up there. I did get nostalgic when I came up last weekend but I was so happy to leave when I did and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

[Apoc]

It is funny to me how many VA / NoVA people especially that grew up there stay up there. I did get nostalgic when I came up last weekend but I was so happy to leave when I did and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

It's a blackhole of money that's hard to escape.