"I would have bought ____ if it weren't for ____."

[D_Eclipse9916]

I would have bought a Spec Miata/E30/Spec3 if it weren't for the expensive "spec" motors that are current or coming in the case of Spec3.

So racing an M3 is cheaper.....?

Nobody every claimed a spec class would'nt stop people from spending money. A spec class keeps the money from making as much of a difference.
If you're good, you can still out-drive the money

M3 is cheaper to race than you think Spec Miata is far more expensive than you would think...

Moreover, I never saw myself actually being able to compete at a higher level. The Spec classes are boring to drive when no one is around, the M3 is still loads of fun.

Of course, Spec Miata is "tighter racing", but relatively slow in the NASA-MA area, so I would have to go SCCA. Which isn't really my forte either.
GTS2 hasn't been too bad with the talent. I have gotten the opportunity to drive against Tristan Herbert (world challenge rookie of the year), James Clay (Bimmerworld Grand Am Driver), Michael Dayton (Grand Am), Barry Battle (Grand Am), and lately Mike Skeen (Baja 1000 Winner, World Challenge/Grand Am, been in karts since before I even cared about cars).

If you would like, I can change it. "I would have bought Spec Miata, if it weren't for me thinking I could ever compete back in the day"

[D_Eclipse9916]

If you're good, you can still out-drive the money

And... I hate when people say that...

Sorry, maybe regionally with "okay" drivers you can out-drive money. But National events are close, and talent only goes so far to get you close enough. You want to win Nationally and get real attention? Talent/Prep/Car/$$$$$$$$$$.

Good luck trying to win against kids that have talent as well, but have mommy/daddy buying multiple Spec Miatas and a rig, to test which car is better at that certain track, just to get 2 tenths of a second.

[JustinG]

I would have a bought 540i Touring if it wasn't a 14yr old BMW with a V8.

[V1GiLaNtE]

Would have bought a classic VFR750 Interceptor if it weren't for the asshat selling it trying to rev it before letting it warm up and subsequently killing it every time until I just left.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I would have raced karts if there were a decent organizing body around

oh oh good one me too!

i can't believe nobody has solved this dilemma on the east coast yet. anybody have some investing money to toss around? :mrgreen:

i would have bought an RX8 if Mazda would stop tripping over their own dicks and either put a damn DISI engine in it or figure out how to engineer a reliable rotary. everything except the dismal reliability and crap mileage is exactly what i want in a car.

Fully caged RX8 with extras...for $1500. Just missing a motor....

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[Steve85]

I would have bought a late 80's 911 if it weren't for the vette being worth nothing.

I would have bought a 69 Camaro if it weren't for dad saying no when I was 16 and then Barrett-Jackson making every owner of a barely drive-able rust bucket think their car is worth $20K - and get it because the baby-boomers are willing and able to spend that and another $20K fixing it.

[G.Irish]

Moreover, I never saw myself actually being able to compete at a higher level. The Spec classes are boring to drive when no one is around, the M3 is still loads of fun.

So what you're saying is, competition at a higher level is not important to you. If that is the case, people in Pro SM with multiple cars and what not don't matter no? Built motors at the regional level don't really matter then either. After all, someone could easily spend a lot more money in GTS right now too. It sounds like you simply wanted to race a car that was more fun for you, not that the money to compete in SM (or Spec E30) was the roadblock.

If you're good, you can still out-drive the money

And... I hate when people say that...

Sorry, maybe regionally with "okay" drivers you can out-drive money. But National events are close, and talent only goes so far to get you close enough. You want to win Nationally and get real attention? Talent/Prep/Car/$$$$$$$$$$.

Good luck trying to win against kids that have talent as well, but have mommy/daddy buying multiple Spec Miatas and a rig, to test which car is better at that certain track, just to get 2 tenths of a second.

Again, you said you weren't looking to do national events, so technically that shouldn't matter. But for the sake of argument, if at a high level of racing, the gap between the outrageous money cars and the reasonable money cars is 2 tenths, that is fantastic! Usually the gap is much larger than that.

Ultimately you can never control spending in racing. Someone with the means and desire to spend more money can and will do so. The only thing you can do, is move the point of diminishing returns. So someone could spend an extra $50,000 on a Spec Miata, but it's not going to get them several seconds of pace. Someone who decides to spend $50K extra on a GTS car could put in a super high dollar suspension (r/r shocks, relocated suspension mounts), cut the weight down with a bunch of carbon fiber, and run a wide body to fit insane tires on the car.

Big money can put a much bigger hurt on you in a class like GTS than in a Spec class. Only reason GTS hasn't turned into a big money bloodbath is because rich people don't want to win enough in GTS (yet).

[D_Eclipse9916]

lol wut? :dunno:

You missed my point by 180 degrees, and then went on another tangent.

GTS= $, but fun car
Spec Miata= cheaper overall, but ridiculous money for those last little bits (hard to justify in my mind spending $7,500 for 1hp)

National Racing and eventually Pro Racing = 3 years ago, never thought I had a chance in frozen hell. Now? I have won a NASA National Title, SCCA National Pros/Tours, raced high-end Pro Racers, and been around longer. I don't think I am a top-pack kind of guy, but it has given me hope that I could at least compete at that level and not embarass myself.

[NTIman]

I would've bought an FRS or a Focus ST, if my current car wasn't paid off.

I would have bought more parts for the CRX, if it weren't for having to pay for this fall's classes.

[G.Irish]

lol wut? :dunno:

You missed my point by 180 degrees, and then went on another tangent.

GTS= $, but fun car
Spec Miata= cheaper overall, but ridiculous money for those last little bits (hard to justify in my mind spending $7,500 for 1hp)

Why would you have to spend $7500 for 1 hp? You said the reason you didn't choose Spec E30, Spec3, or SM is because some people come to the grid with built engines. But if a built engine only gets you a small amount more hp (which translates to not that big of an advantage), what's the problem?

You acknowledge that something like SM would be cheaper overall, is it just that you would have been compelled to spend $7500 on a motor and that you feel it would've been money poorly spent? That comes around to the point several people have made, you don't have to spend that. I'm sure the game has moved on since Evan raced but he won plenty of races without a built to the gills engine.

As I said, it seems more like you're saying that you chose not to get a spec car because the M3 is more fun. The built motor thing seems like a non-factor. Any time in any class people want to win bad enough they're going to spend money.

National Racing and eventually Pro Racing = 3 years ago, never thought I had a chance in frozen hell. Now? I have won a NASA National Title, SCCA National Pros/Tours, raced high-end Pro Racers, and been around longer. I don't think I am a top-pack kind of guy, but it has given me hope that I could at least compete at that level and not embarass myself.

So you're saying that you could not have done any of that if you had gone for one of the spec classes? Are you saying winning the TTC title opened doors that would not have been opened otherwise. If so, that's a different point altogether.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Hey G.... guess what? You are reading wayyyy to much into it.

$7500 for 1hp, take a step back, seems ridiculous; but it is what you should do if you want to be at the top. I just can't stomache that, money spent unwisely as a hobbyist,money spent wisely if you wanted to win and you saw a "career out of racing". I fall into the former.

Evan did well, not sure where this came from. But didn't he express frustration and leave partly because of the "built motor" fiasco? That is how it was told to me, even though I was not referencing him at all anywhere...

Lastly, a TTC title opened no doors, it's just another "step" towards becoming better. All of those steps in conjunction slowly help you become a better driver. No doors have opened for me, and I dare to say they probably will not ever. $ opens doors, find a good benefactor or pay your own way. 3 years ago, I never wanted to go pro racing. Now, you can speak to some of my friends, and if by 30 I haven't had the chance to go on someone's dime, I will pay for a Pro Seat myself. I just want to try it, see how I can stack up. There is no illusion of making a career out of it.

[.RJ]

$7500 for 1hp, take a step back, seems ridiculous; but it is what you should do if you want to be at the top

I'd much rather compete with guys spending $7500 to get 1hp, than a more open ruleset where guys are spending $7500 and knocking off huge chunks of time with trick shocks, diffs, engine and suspension bits. If it seems ridiculous, then dont do it, and work on testing & driving instead of buying the $$$ motor?

But I also sold my racecar so :dunno: :lol:

[KPWSerpiente]

I would have bought an Evolution 8 if Lee hadn't been selling his STi for a great price.

-T

[Evan]

^ Ooh that's a good one. I've always said I wanted the RX-8 body with the MS3 engine in it. I love the chassis, looks & fit and finish are pretty good, but the rotary drivetrain just does nothing for me.

STOPPIT MAZDA STOPPIT

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[G.Irish]

^ Ooh that's a good one. I've always said I wanted the RX-8 body with the MS3 engine in it. I love the chassis, looks & fit and finish are pretty good, but the rotary drivetrain just does nothing for me.

STOPPIT MAZDA STOPPIT

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/16/mazda-16x-rotary-engine-two-years-away-all-new-model">http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/16/mazd ... -new-model</a><!-- m -->

Come on, you know you'd buy a new RX-7 if it was light and got better than horrible gas mileage. Especially if it was priced at 370Z level or under.

Of course, it's probably about even money that Mazda will get the rotary wrong yet again.

[G.Irish]

Next Gen Dorito-Tech: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/">http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/</a><!-- m -->

[D_Eclipse9916]

Next Gen Dorito-Tech: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/">http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/</a><!-- m -->

You know what? Really cool that they are going forward with it despite all the problems. And INSANELY cool that they are upping displacement to 1600CC while reducing width of rotor housings, and DECREASING weight. Increase displacement while reducng weight and making more torque + power? Neat-o.

[Evan]

^ Ooh that's a good one. I've always said I wanted the RX-8 body with the MS3 engine in it. I love the chassis, looks & fit and finish are pretty good, but the rotary drivetrain just does nothing for me.

STOPPIT MAZDA STOPPIT

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/16/mazda-16x-rotary-engine-two-years-away-all-new-model">http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/16/mazd ... -new-model</a><!-- m -->

Come on, you know you'd buy a new RX-7 if it was light and got better than horrible gas mileage. Especially if it was priced at 370Z level or under.

Of course, it's probably about even money that Mazda will get the rotary wrong yet again.

Sure, it would be a great car despite its engine.

but if you had your pick which would you rather have, an inefficient spinny psuedo-2 stroke torqueless wonder, or a 350hp boosted skyactiv 2.5?

I wouldnt even say that mazda gets the rotary wrong, the rotary is wrong to begin with.

[CaptainHenreh]

Always figured direct injection was the cure for all the Wankels "problems". Can't have pre-detonation without fuel. (even when the air is pressurized) Good atomization (like DI gives) means full combustion of fuel, reducing exhaust gas temps and hc emissions, all while increasing power. Seems like a no-brainer to me, even if they dont' do the injection at TDC, according to that graphic. (Not sure why, but I'm sure we'll find out). And finally, lightening the beerkeg is always good, I'd love to see this in a sub-miata sized RWD coupe. More torque, more reliability, lighter weight, reduced emissions.

Sounds good to me. We'll see, the Renesis was kind of a flop.

[Ghost]

I would have bought APR K04 swap if it wasn't for school fees and books. Haha