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+--- Thread: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") (/showthread.php?tid=8260)
Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - Steve85 - 06-15-2009
I don't have time or desire to watch much racing but try to keep up with a couple teams, both ALMS. One is LG Motorsports racing a C6 and the other Prototype Technology Group now running a Panoz, both in GT2, with a shop/HQ's in Winchester.
Lou Gilgliotti is the owner of LG Motorsports, a supplier and manufacturer of C5 C6 go fast goodies. He raced in the Speed World Challenge series for years and then stepped up to ALMS GT2 while Corvette Racing was in GT1. Here is a quick interview about his experience with Corvette Racing and GM. You would think they would want to support his efforts against the likes of Ferrari and Porsche, you know, good for marketing. Nothing could be further from the truth...
http://glidingserpent.blogspot.com/2009/06/08-lou-g-and-serpent-talk-about-racing.html
Lou goes on to say in a forum where he is very accessible and active: (it's two seperate posts run together)
Lou Gigliotti Wrote:Hi Guys,
Well, I guess the internet is truly interwoven everywhere.
I get carried away with telling the truth from time to time. Oh well.
If it seems that I am focused a little bit on the tires, you are right. Michelin would not even let us test their tires.
SO I tested their customer, over the counter tires that anyone here can buy, and they were only .5 sec slower than the Dunlop tires for the first 7 laps, then they were faster than the Dunlop tires from there on. The dunlop tires lost a second and a half compared to the Michelins on the long run, and that is just a customer tire.
Dunlop did bring over the "European tires" but they were only slightly better and still went off during a stint. It is not just the ultimate lap time but the average lap time during a stint, and the Michelins can run 2 stints in a row and still set fastest laps at the end of 2 hours.
So we requested to use the Michelin over the counter tires, and bring my own tire machine and manpower so it would not interfere with Michelin. (not to mention that they were $1600 cheaper per set) They would not allow it and they went to the ALMS to make it clear that we could NOT run that tire.
So that is that.
GM?? Well that is a weird bunch for sure. If it is not "invented" at GM they don't acknowledge it. It was GM racing that convinced the SCCA to slow the Corvette down (added 190 pounds to us) to make it slower than the Cadillac rather than convince SCCA to "Speed UP" the caddy.
The result was that Porsche won the Driver championship in 06 and I finished 2nd with Pilgrim in 3rd. Great strategy but GM did win the Manufacturers championship and Wesoloski got a good year end review. GOOD WORK BOYS.
So when we entered the ALMS, we would not do it until GM (wesoloski) promised us that we would NEVER have to lay down for any GM car in GT2.
They promised us, and based on history, I should have known that their promise was not worth the price of GM Common stock.
As soon as they realized that they were coming into GT2, we got tossed under the bus again.
So the car is for sale. We plan on running the Petit Le Mans race, probably with Yokohama tires. They provided us with engineers and other perks, and they were fantastic to us. So for that race, we will probably be on Yokos.
That is not to say that the Dunlop people were not great. They helped us a ton. they tried to get us the latest development tires that BMW was using but could not get them because of the Exclusive contract with BMW.
I might just run Bicycle tires.
Still talking with a couple of funded potential drivers for the Petit. We shall see.
thanks guys, You have all been great to us. We loved giving out the free hats that GM would NOT ALLOW US TO SELL because we might make money on their flag logo.
But if I am going to invest time in any racing series, it has to be beneficial to my business and to the customers that we serve.
We have come up with some good parts for the Corvette community using racing as the test bench. "We race, You Win"
So I plan on winding back and doing some more fun racing. The World Challenge was great until the rules got out of hand.
Grand Am is a possiblity because they allow 4 or 5 drivers for a 24 hour race, and the opportunity opens up to build our own car and have rental seats.
We have always provided great cars for our rental drivers, so Grand AM would fit that bill.
Koni would be a good place for my son Louis to start out in but NO Corvettes allowed. Or he could start in NASA.
Either way, we are not done, just moving on to other things.
We removed the A/C from the car to take off 56 pounds last couple of races, and I still get out of the car looking fresher than the Young Pups that drive with me .
We still have to finish up this chapter then we can make some plans.
Thanks
LG
See you at the races.
It's one thing to not want to help, it is entirely mind boggling to actively stand in the way. I hope Ferrari hands GM their ass in GT2. Actually, I hope the Panoz guys out of Winchester beat'em.
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - G.Irish - 06-16-2009
The Michelin nonsense is a prime illustration of why BSB, Moto GP, and WSBK went to a spec tire. When tire politics hamstring teams that would normally be competitive it ultimately puts tire companies' interests above the interests of the competitors. At the end of the day no one watches races for the tires and tire companies don't pay the bills so you end up with a spec tire. I wouldn't be surprised if ALMS and ELMS went to a spec tire one day too. I think it is one of the few major championships that doesn't have one.
As for GM, it's crappy what they did to ol' Lou but not really an uncommon thing in motorsport. If company X is paying big bucks out of their marketing budget for racing then they expect that ROI. If they don't deliver that ROI to the marketing dept, no more money. That is one of the problems with companies that race purely for marketing, sometimes the privateers are simply going to get screwed. In all honestly there are few companies in motorsport that would be totally cool with their factory team getting beaten by privateers. Egos are involved, corporate suits are involved and ultimately the little guy gets hosed.
But really I wouldn't turn around and start rooting for Ferrari after how GM treated LG. Ferrari is even worse than LG when it comes to that kind of stuff. Remember the Prodrive Ferrari 550 Le Mans program? Prodrive went to Ferrari and made an offer to run that program with Ferrari's backing. The underlings at Ferrari agreed but the Luca di Montezemolo axed the idea because he didn't think it was proper that a British company run a Ferrari race program. So Ferrari refused to sell Prodrive cars to race nor give them support. Prodrive ended up having to buy used street cars to go racing with. Make no mistake, Ferrari would do the exact same thing if they were in GM's position.
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - Steve85 - 06-16-2009
I see what you're saying about the marketing but what gets me is that they were not in the same class for years. Talk about ROI, how about Corvette wins GT2 and GT1. You're right about the suits and egos of course, so the final screw job is not much of a surprise but still disappointing. I guess if I was Compuware and GM I wouldn't want my car coming in second to a guy who makes headers. It's bad enough that guy makes more money than GM :oops:
Quote:but the Luca di Montezemolo axed the idea because he didn't think it was proper that a British company run a Ferrari race programI agree... go Ferrari :wink:
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - Evan - 06-16-2009
Id take everything LG says with a grain of salt.
He wants to be the big fish in a small pond and complains when he isnt.
I lost all respect for him back in SWC a few years ago when the Caddys first entered. (Prior to this point it was pretty much a semi-pro series with no real top level pro teams) After the first race the Caddys got huge penalties, and after qualifying of the next race speed interviewed him and he said that obviously the penalties werent enough since the Caddys were still a tenth faster than him.
Because clearly, his operation is every bit as good as Pratt & Miller and his driving is every bit as good as Andy Pilgrim... :roll:
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - .RJ - 06-16-2009
For a brand new car that was pretty drastically removed, tube framed, and engine relocated from its start as a street car, I dont think that commentary was out of line.
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - G.Irish - 06-16-2009
I think the Caddy's in SWC GT got wayyy too many allowances to start but I agree that it's stupid to complain if they're a tenth faster than your privateer garage program.
One thing I wonder though is how exactly LG got 'tossed under the bus' when GM came to GT2?
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - Evan - 06-16-2009
.RJ Wrote:For a brand new car that was pretty drastically removed, tube framed, and engine relocated from its start as a street car, I dont think that commentary was out of line.sure, but thats not my point.
Im not arguing that the Caddy was properly classed to begin with (although I do think they were way overpenalized as an overreaction)
its the self centered reaction that "anyone faster than me is cheating" (or has more favorable rules allowances)
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - Steve85 - 02-21-2011
Not that anybody cares... but LG is suing GM, Michelin and Doug Fehan (Mgr at Corvette Racing).
http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/filed%20doc%20GM_Mich.pdf
Quote:One thing I wonder though is how exactly LG got 'tossed under the bus' when GM came to GT2?
Read paragraphs 22 - 30 on the homologation process.
Also read 41 about Boris Said being unable to get Michelin tires if racing for LG, but got them w/out a problem when he signed up to drive a Ford. 42 continues the tire story.
It will be interesting to see where this goes...
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - ScottyB - 02-21-2011
i get Gentilozzi and Gigliotti mixed up all the time from watching them in trans am years ago (first thing i thought of was the guy who raced the jag body in trams am). i do recall them both being pretty vocal.
i can see where GM is trying to protect it's investment, but any corporation that large should clearly see the marketing benefit from having successful grassroots victories as well as factory victories IMO. the way they operate is a shame.
agreed on the spec tires as well. as a driver i can't imagine the frustration.
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - WRXtranceformed - 02-21-2011
Cliffs notes?
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - G.Irish - 02-21-2011
It will be really interesting to see if LG wins the lawsuit. Tire politics have long been a part of professional motorsport and it would be a huge win for the little guy if Michelin lost here. However, an unfortunate side effect should LG win would be that the beancounters at some of these companies may have one more reason to not go racing. "We could get sued by these privateer teams if we don't do this or if we don't do that. Not worth the trouble." I think in this case it is a fairly specific behavior that would get punished but there are a lot of ways the factory can screw over the little guy so if the doors get opened to lawsuits it could be a bad thing. Or maybe a great thing because factories will be forced to be more fair.
Then there's the politics with sanctioning bodies. Could team(s) bring lawsuits if they found that the sanctioning body was acting in concert with a manufacturer to thwart a privateer effort? Or to give a particular make an unfair advantage? On one hand I'd like to see situations where manufacturers are given special treatment to go away but at the same time I'd have to see races won and lost in the courtroom instead of the race track.
This could be very interesting.
Re: Corvette Racing vs Privateer ("Pissing into the Wind") - Steve85 - 02-21-2011
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Cliffs notes?
Basically when GM decided to go racing in GT2 they didn't allow the cars LG bought through Riley to be homologated (approved) by the sanctioning body and GM supposedly blocked Michelin, who has a lucrative OEM supplier contract with GM, from supplying tires for LG.
The tire issue will be an interesting argument, I believe LG could have gotten the tires if he were to buy Pratt&Miller cars. That the exclusivity deal was set-up that way to possibly provide the legal loophole? This would have certainly come with a lot of sacrifices though...no way GM would allow P&M to supply anything but a spec car or participate in active development of an LG car.
I agree G, I think there could be some unintended consequences, I hope for the more fair ending. I am sure there are plenty of people out there that could clean Patrick Dempseys clock that never get the chance because sponsors see the OEMs dominating in a series and start counting their ROI beans.