+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Motorcycles (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: American Supercamp report... (/showthread.php?tid=4988)
American Supercamp report... - JohnC - 10-27-2006
American Supercamp - Prelude
American Supercamp - Day 1
American Supercamp - Day 2
Edited to point to the original blog posts instead, because editing the same post on multiple forums is silly...
- G.Irish - 10-29-2006
What a freakin' blast!
Day One
As John said, day one we did all ovals. As John said the body position was a bit weird and basically that was what we were trying to get used to all day. The first time out I was really nervous and I was all over the place while getting used to the bike. Throughout the day I got markedly better, even though I crashed about 10 times.
At least 2 of my crashes were from getting into a corner and having someone slower close the door on my front wheel. I asked an instructor about it and he was telling me that once you can change your line better (and get better judgement) that won't be a problem. Sure enough I didn't have that problem for the rest of the weekend.
I felt bad but there was one older dude in our group who was really tentative and I think he ended up quitting after the first day because the group was too aggressive. I don't think it was too aggressive but the dude was going pretty slow. I actually torpedoed his rear wheel (Pedrosa!) pretty hard once because he had gotten into a slide and parked it.
They wetted down the course at the end of the day and it made things really interesting. Not only was it easy to slide on corner entry but the little XR100's were sliding all over the place on the power. After snapping the bike all the way around a few times I was able to modulate the throttle and slide on the exit but not lose control. On two occasions though...
One of the instructors was yelling something at me and I turned back to look at him and whooaaaaa-whoaaaaaaa a two snap tankslapper. All of the guys were laughing pretty hard on that one. Second time was even better. One of the instructors was riding behind me and again, said something to me and I turned to look back...whoaaaaaa-WHOAAAA-WHOAAAAAA-whoaaaaa-whoooaaaaa! A 5-snap tankslapper. I don't know how I managed to stay on the bike but in a way it was kinda fun. Had that been a bigger bike there's no way I could've saved that one.
By the end of day one I felt like I was sliding pretty well. But we weren't going that fast yet...
Dia Dos
Day two we moved to a bigger course in the shape of kind of a horseshoe so there were left and right turns. The day started off rough for me because dealing with the extra speed and crashing several times early in the day left me kind of tentative.
In the previous week I had a bruised tail bone from sitting on a train seat wrong (and falling asleep) in Japan. Going into the camp I was like, "Man I DO NOT wanna fall on my tailbone". Well, I'm putting around early on day two, still not up to speed because of the bigger course and Chris Carr comes flying by. I'm like, "Ok, I need to go a little faster because I'm not sliding much." So I follow him into the turn and...slide, slide, slide, sliii-BAMMM!!! Right on my ass. Note to self, don't follow Chris Carr.
One drill that I felt a lot better with on Day Two was the "One Hand on the Tank" drill. You had to ride around with your left hand on the gas tank which forced you to:
A. Use your legs to steer the bike
B. Be smoother and more in control
I had a hell of a time with that on Day One but on Day Two I was getting my slide on a bit with it. It definitely felt a lot more useful. I won't be doing that at VIR though...
The End
In all I crashed over 20 times but on only 3 of them I was slow getting up. 2 of them were because I felt right on my ass. I hit the ejector button (highsided) about 5 of those times but I landed on my feet for most of them. Amazing that a little bike can do that but had that been a big bike I would've gotten hurt.
My big issue was putting too much weight on the front. Riding a supersport it feels natural to have the weight on the front but putting your weight over the front with these bikes makes you tuck the front. I had a bunch of low side crashes that way, probably the majority of my crashes were from that one issue. I did a lot better with that in my last session and I was starting to feel a lot more in control. Unfortunately my legs and arms were really beat at that point so I couldn't push as much as I wanted to.
One thing I noticed is that I can slide a lot better going to the left than to the right. When going to the left I can put my foot out at any time but to the right I have to keep my foot on the brake until I'm done braking/turning. I eventually learned to slide with both feet on the pegs in both directions but I definitely wasn't sliding as much as when I could use my foot going to the left.
Still I came away with a lot. It really makes me want to practice with a little dirtbike and it also told me that starting out learning to slide with a 450 (which has about 12 times the horsepower) would really hurt. Now all we have to do is find some dirt to slide on.
Video
Here's a little clip I found on Youtube. The camera work is a bit shoddy so you don't really get to see how smooth and beautiful some of the instructors' slides were. This is the same place we were at (Supercamp goes to several venues all over the country).
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=GIa_szhJic8">http://youtube.com/watch?v=GIa_szhJic8</a><!-- m -->
- Ginger - 10-29-2006
Awesome reports! It sounds like the camp was worth every penny. Did they take any pictures that you guys bought? (Did you bring cameras?
)
- G.Irish - 10-29-2006
Another cool thing I came away with from the camp is that now I understand what some of the pro guys are doing a lot better. Looking at Nicky Hayden back the bike in you can see some of the techniques we were being tought at Supercamp. Nicky actually did the Supercamp a few years back and I think was a guest instructor a few times.
We actually watched some clips of various pro riders getting their slide on. One video of Ricky Carmichael was particularly interesting because it was compared with Bubba Stewart and you can see where the difference in body position was giving Ricky an advantage in controlling the bike (Bubba crashed).
- G.Irish - 10-29-2006
asteele2 Wrote:Awesome reports! It sounds like the camp was worth every penny. Did they take any pictures that you guys bought? (Did you bring cameras?Nah my camera was broken and Jdawg forgot his.
- Ginger - 10-29-2006
RJ and I have been talking about the sliding technique for a while rather inconclusively. What are the pros doing when they 'back it in'? Is it a brake step out, or just push the bike over to get it sliding?
- JohnC - 10-29-2006
So I added my Prelude and Day 2 reports to the first post...
One fellow did take a couple of pictures of us - he's supposed to email them to me today or tomorrow.
- G.Irish - 10-29-2006
asteele2 Wrote:RJ and I have been talking about the sliding technique for a while rather inconclusively. What are the pros doing when they 'back it in'? Is it a brake step out, or just push the bike over to get it sliding?Apparently there are several ways to do it but what they taught is a combination of pushing the bike down and using rear brake. The instructors were sometimes using a downshift (sans rev match) to kick the rear out too, but they were still pushing the bike down.
The thing that is cool about sliding is that when you see the front wheel turned against the slide in a countersteer the rider really isn't turning the bars at all. The front wheel is still pointed the same direction it would be when taking a turn normally, it's just that the rear has come around so it looks like you're turning the wheel.
- JohnC - 10-29-2006
G.Irish Wrote:The instructors were sometimes using a downshift (sans rev match) to kick the rear out too, but they were still pushing the bike down.
I was doing that too. My first try resulted in a low-side, but after that, it worked pretty well.
- Feersty - 10-29-2006
What was the premise for taking this class? To improve technique on the track or on the street? Or just cause you're dirtbike fans?
- G.Irish - 10-29-2006
The reason we took the class was to learn how to slide a bike. I don't plan on doing flat track or MX but for supermoto or road courses it's a skill that comes in handy and in a tight situation on the street it could be useful too.
- Mike - 10-29-2006
so when are you buying a supermoto?
- ScottyB - 10-29-2006
that looks like SO much fun. i'd love to rock a motard or motocross bike someday. they look so nimble!
do any of you guys mountain bike? does any technique used in that line of 2 wheeled fun carry over to motocross bikes or is the weight so different that it's null/void?
- G.Irish - 10-29-2006
ScottyB Wrote:do any of you guys mountain bike? does any technique used in that line of 2 wheeled fun carry over to motocross bikes or is the weight so different that it's null/void?Dunno, I've never mountain biked competitively or at high speeds. I think it'd probably be a bit different because you have lot more freedom to move your weight on the seat of a dirt bike and because the dirtbike has a lot more weight that is centered near the engine so you have to work with that.
I'm sure there is some crossover though. I'll have to practice sliding a mountain bike with techniques I learned
- Apoc - 10-29-2006
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/mcy/227516608.html">http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ ... 16608.html</a><!-- m -->
- G.Irish - 10-30-2006
Apoc Wrote:http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/mcy/227516608.html
No way. A 525 is wayyy too much motorcycle for me to learn. Some of those falls I had really would've hurt with a heavier motorcycle.
I think eventually I'd end up with a CRF450 or equivalent but for now I'd like to get a 250. Gotta get my VISA back off life support first though.
- Apoc - 10-30-2006
You fall with a much heavier RR all the time.
- G.Irish - 10-30-2006
Apoc Wrote:You fall with a much heavier RR all the time.Yeah but I wasn't trying to slide the RR, and I won't be trying to slide the RR...until I can do it on smaller bikes
- Kaan - 10-30-2006
lol 250s are heavy enough... 125s are big enough...
just make sure you have the big boy wheels on them when i started riding i started on dirt bikes... and now i know why i ride a street bike SO improperly in corners... i have a dirt bike upper body position on a street bike... they arent exactly the same