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+--- Thread: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) (/showthread.php?tid=11293)
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-17-2019
Yeah telling someone "Go back where you came from" falls pretty firmly in the "prrrrrrrrrobably racist" camp. Not like, the worst shit ever but pretty bad.
At the same time, I think everyone can save me the crocodile tears of ole Fauxcahontas. She made her bed, she can sleep in it.
OOH, I almost forgot. In the midst of all this hullaballoo, CNN had Richard Spencer on the AIR to, I dunno, dunk on Trump or something. It was very weird, and I don't understand why anyone would give that guy airtime.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - BLINGMW - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 08:53 AM)CaptainHenreh Wrote: Yeah telling someone "Go back where you came from" falls pretty firmly in the "prrrrrrrrrobably racist" camp. Not like, the worst shit ever but pretty bad.
That's why I wish people would stop giving social media so much weight and so much of their time. There's no context, no understanding of audience, it's just people yelling at whomever will listen and turns us into crazy people on a street corner. So some hear "go back to where you came from" and think of the time someone yelled that at them in a Walmart parking lot, or white supremacists marching around with pointy hats, and since that was racist, this guy must be too. But if I were in a conversation at a local bar with a white guy from the UK, and he was going on and on about how much our health care sucks and how great their NHS is, and I got tired of hearing his nonsense and said "go back to where you came from", no-one would bat an eyelash.
(07-17-2019, 08:53 AM)CaptainHenreh Wrote: CNN had Richard Spencer on the AIR to, I dunno, dunk on Trump or something. It was very weird, and I don't understand why anyone would give that guy airtime.
Eyeballs on the screen. Keep everyone scared and one-sided and convince them to buy shit they don't need.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 11:13 AM)BLINGMW Wrote: But if I were in a conversation at a local bar with a white guy from the UK, and he was going on and on about how much our health care sucks and how great their NHS is, and I got tired of hearing his nonsense and said "go back to where you came from", no-one would bat an eyelash.
Disagree. It's being exclusionist and dismissive based on someone's country of origin and never okay.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48993211
Iain Tyson says that when he was stopped while driving by a Los Angeles police officer, the officer heard his British accent and - using an expletive - told him to go "back to where you came from".
He said that during his travels in the US, he has frequently been told: "If you don't like it, why don't you go back to where you came from?"
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 11:23 AM)Apoc Wrote:(07-17-2019, 11:13 AM)BLINGMW Wrote: But if I were in a conversation at a local bar with a white guy from the UK, and he was going on and on about how much our health care sucks and how great their NHS is, and I got tired of hearing his nonsense and said "go back to where you came from", no-one would bat an eyelash.
Disagree. It's being exclusionist and dismissive based on someone's country of origin and never okay.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48993211
Iain Tyson says that when he was stopped while driving by a Los Angeles police officer, the officer heard his British accent and - using an expletive - told him to go "back to where you came from".
He said that during his travels in the US, he has frequently been told: "If you don't like it, why don't you go back to where you came from?"
I'm with Chris on this one, it's totally OK to criticize your government, and SHOULD be ok, and nobody should be told "if you don't like it leave." the American thing to say is "If you don't like it change it, because this is America and when we don't like shit our government does we shine our rifles and throw fucking tea into the ocean goddammit, USA USA USA"
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - G.Irish - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 11:13 AM)BLINGMW Wrote: So some hear "go back to where you came from" and think of the time someone yelled that at them in a Walmart parking lot, or white supremacists marching around with pointy hats, and since that was racist, this guy must be too.
I mean, if you're saying the exact same thing White Supremacists say, in the exact same context, to the exact same type of people, how could it be interpreted as anything but racist? In the United States for a long, long time 'Go back to Africa' has been used by racists as an attack on black people for various reasons, but mostly as a retort to black people calling out the unfairness of racism in America.
Donald Trump is someone who has been sued by HUD not once, but twice for racially discriminating against tenants. He was forced to settle both times. He's the guy who called for executions for the Central Park Five and to this day has never recanted even though they were proven innocent. He's the same person who was out there pushing the birther conspiracy for the first black president. He's said that a judge of Mexican descent (who was born in the US) can't be impartial to Trump. And on, and on, and on.
No need to overthink it, what he said was racist. He is racist.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - .RJ - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 12:47 PM)G.Irish Wrote: No need to overthink it, what he said was racist. He is racist.
And it matters not one iota to the GOP, his Cabinet, or his base of supporters, sadly.
Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 07-17-2019
G with the gavel slam. Agreed on all points.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 12:47 PM)G.Irish Wrote:(07-17-2019, 11:13 AM)BLINGMW Wrote: So some hear "go back to where you came from" and think of the time someone yelled that at them in a Walmart parking lot, or white supremacists marching around with pointy hats, and since that was racist, this guy must be too.
I mean, if you're saying the exact same thing White Supremacists say, in the exact same context, to the exact same type of people, how could it be interpreted as anything but racist? In the United States for a long, long time 'Go back to Africa' has been used by racists as an attack on black people for various reasons, but mostly as a retort to black people calling out the unfairness of racism in America.
Donald Trump is someone who has been sued by HUD not once, but twice for racially discriminating against tenants. He was forced to settle both times. He's the guy who called for executions for the Central Park Five and to this day has never recanted even though they were proven innocent. He's the same person who was out there pushing the birther conspiracy for the first black president. He's said that a judge of Mexican descent (who was born in the US) can't be impartial to Trump. And on, and on, and on.
No need to overthink it, what he said was racist. He is racist.
Have you taken into account that Trump has a lot of black friends? Cause that makes a difference, ya know.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - G.Irish - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 01:34 PM)Apoc Wrote: Have you taken into account that Trump has a lot of black friends? Cause that makes a difference, ya know.
I'm sure no one has more black friends than him. The bestest black friends. People are saying he has the best black friends of any president.
Meanwhile, even the worst, woman-hating misogynist, has a mother. Having a friend, or a relative, or even a child from some group someone hates, doesn't mean they somehow can't hate that group. Bigotry doesn't require consistency or rationality.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - BLINGMW - 07-17-2019
I think we're on at least two topics now
1) Is it ever OK to say go back where you came from?
2) Is Trump racist?
On point 2, I guess I don't care enough. A lot of people are racist to some degree and many don't know it. I probably am too. I've heard, overlooked, and participated in too many off color jokes, and I don't expect politicians to be perfect either. They (and we) are all biased in some way. I guess my only point is that given our relatively short and brutal history as a country, THIS IS NOTHING.
On #1, I'll have to sleep on it. I honestly don't get it. Almost no-one here came from here, so it's a stupid comment and I don't know why anyone would give it any weight. If someone said to me:
(07-17-2019, 11:23 AM)Apoc Wrote: Iain Tyson says that when he was stopped while driving by a Los Angeles police officer, the officer heard his British accent and - using an expletive - told him to go "back to where you came from".
He said that during his travels in the US, he has frequently been told: "If you don't like it, why don't you go back to where you came from?"
I would laugh. It would ruin my day for .02 seconds. But if that person were a police officer, I would respectfully say "yessir" because I don't want to spend the night in jail knowing our justice system is almost as broken as the rest of the world.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - .RJ - 07-17-2019
(07-17-2019, 09:04 PM)BLINGMW Wrote: On point 2, I guess I don't care enough.
For the leader of the free world, please care more than that. We should expect better from the POTUS's decorum and speech and respect for our history and democracy.
A full 30-35% of the country has dug their heels in and are in full support of this racist orange anus-mouth meatbag and nothing anyone says is going to change that.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 07-18-2019
(07-17-2019, 09:04 PM)BLINGMW Wrote: I think we're on at least two topics now
1) Is it ever OK to say go back where you came from?
2) Is Trump racist?
On #1, I'll have to sleep on it. I honestly don't get it. Almost no-one here came from here, so it's a stupid comment and I don't know why anyone would give it any weight. If someone said to me:
(07-17-2019, 11:23 AM)Apoc Wrote: Iain Tyson says that when he was stopped while driving by a Los Angeles police officer, the officer heard his British accent and - using an expletive - told him to go "back to where you came from".
He said that during his travels in the US, he has frequently been told: "If you don't like it, why don't you go back to where you came from?"
I would laugh. It would ruin my day for .02 seconds. But if that person were a police officer, I would respectfully say "yessir" because I don't want to spend the night in jail knowing our justice system is almost as broken as the rest of the world.
It's mighty nice growing up white in the country you were born, eh?Perhaps you don't get it because you've never heard these phrases hurled at you in a disparaging, hostile manner over and over again?
Honestly, why stop there? Why does anyone give n***** or k*** any weight?
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - BLINGMW - 07-18-2019
(07-17-2019, 10:58 PM).RJ Wrote: We should expect better from the POTUS's decorum and speech and respect for our history and democracy.
Oh absolutely, but he doesn't care what we think about him. And while we're used to our politicians being well spoken and mild mannered, the guy proves that's not a requirement. I didn't vote for the guy but it's been interesting to see how our system handles a rough-edged non career politician. And next cycle I'll take possibly racist guy who can't keep his mouth shut over socialists who might also be racist but are better at covering for it.
As far as the "it's nice being white" comment, I'm the one who brought this up and am trying to think about it and understand it. I could go back to drinking mint juleps in my white suit and hat and just not give a shit what people who don't look like me say.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Senor_Taylor - 07-18-2019
" I'll take possibly racist guy who can't keep his mouth shut over socialists who might also be racist but are better at covering for it."
We all have bad thoughts, but people that are sane and make good decisions don't air all of them. It doesn't really make sense to me to say that everyone has some racist thoughts some times, but then decide you'd rather have the person that says them without a filter.
The first step towards progress is getting those spewing the hate vocally to not do it, only then can actual mindset changes take place.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-18-2019
(07-18-2019, 08:15 AM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: " I'll take possibly racist guy who can't keep his mouth shut over socialists who might also be racist but are better at covering for it."
We all have bad thoughts, but people that are sane and make good decisions don't air all of them. It doesn't really make sense to me to say that everyone has some racist thoughts some times, but then decide you'd rather have the person that says them without a filter.
The first step towards progress is getting those spewing the hate vocally to not do it, only then can actual mindset changes take place.
I mean, you hit the nail on the head with the problem, ultimately.
Trump sucks. We all know he sucks. (We, I mean, all of us here.) He's a trash person.
BUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...
Capture.PNG (Size: 18.8 KB / Downloads: 118)
and
Capture2.PNG (Size: 11.74 KB / Downloads: 118)
A whole lot of (mostly white) people can stomach a dude saying disgusting things when the DJIA is through the moon and unemployment is in the shitter. It's not right, and it's not good, and the president can't really take credit for the economy while he absolutely owns the idiotic stuff he tweets...but it is the reality.
When faced with a football team of Democrats NOT talking about how they're going to keep this economy moving and instead talking about how they're going to give everyone free bubbleup, a whole lot of folks are just gonna look the other way.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Kaan - 07-18-2019
An Asian guy asked me, "when are you planning to move back to Turkey?" while reviewing paperwork that states I was born in MD, lived here my ENTIRE LIFE, a US citizen, etc.
I'm 'merican, I'm the whitest half breed Turk in the world, etc. Was I upset? Yes... Does this stuff happen to people of all shapes, colors, sexual preference, etc? YES
Do people say stupid stuff ALL the time? Yes. Are we all guilty of it? YES... I'm not justifying Agent Orange or what he says... but lets all realize we are all the pot calling the kettle b***k.
Its our generations responsibility (and those slightly younger than us) to keep it real. Not this "woke" bull... be real, be honest, equal means equal (no buts about it), call out "both sides" and listen to each other. Its the only way we have a chance to fix this country.
We are on a heck of a losing streak for political decisions as far as I am concerned. We have been robing Peter to pay Paul for so long I don't even feel like looking for the source. We have made TERRIBLE foreign policy, budget, and regulatory decisions since at least WW1. We have bastardized the constitution, neglected our schools, destroyed manufacturing, pushed dependency by limiting opportunity...
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-18-2019
(07-18-2019, 08:31 AM)Kaan Wrote: We are on a heck of a losing streak for political decisions as far as I am concerned. We have been robing Peter to pay Paul for so long I don't even feel like looking for the source. We have made TERRIBLE foreign policy, budget, and regulatory decisions since at least WW1. We have bastardized the constitution, neglected our schools, destroyed manufacturing, pushed dependency by limiting opportunity...
So you're saying we need to make...the nation...more better...like it was before?
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Kaan - 07-18-2019
(07-18-2019, 08:33 AM)CaptainHenreh Wrote:(07-18-2019, 08:31 AM)Kaan Wrote: We are on a heck of a losing streak for political decisions as far as I am concerned. We have been robing Peter to pay Paul for so long I don't even feel like looking for the source. We have made TERRIBLE foreign policy, budget, and regulatory decisions since at least WW1. We have bastardized the constitution, neglected our schools, destroyed manufacturing, pushed dependency by limiting opportunity...
So you're saying we need to make...the nation...more better...like it was before?
NO. The greatest time in this country was its inception. Let me explain before someone says I love owning slaves. The design of the country and the government was VERY controversial. The founding fathers did not agree all the time or most of the time.
BUT they did design the government, laws, and policies to evolve. This was a great idea, but does not define greatness itself. I want the nation to improve and be great... but there is no again.
Outside of pushing toward actual true equality (men, women, in-between, black, white, red, purple, gay, straight, bisexual, christain, jewish, muslim, atheist...) we haven't done much as a country. To do this, it would take strategy that "both sides" agree on and work toward WITHOUT outside influence (from Putin to the lobbyists)... at all levels of government (city, county, state, national... all corrupt IMHO)
one of the worst things we have done as a country is end-around the constitution. executive orders, laws, etc. have undermined it. For a pot stirring example... If you think everyone has a right to health care, amend the constitution. That's how the country was designed to operate.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - .RJ - 07-18-2019
(07-18-2019, 08:50 AM)Kaan Wrote: If you think everyone has a right to health care, amend the constitution. That's how the country was designed to operate.
You mean like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights doesnt seem like such a crazy agenda anymore...
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-18-2019
(07-18-2019, 09:19 AM).RJ Wrote:(07-18-2019, 08:50 AM)Kaan Wrote: If you think everyone has a right to health care, amend the constitution. That's how the country was designed to operate.
You mean like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights doesnt seem like such a crazy agenda anymore...
Well the problem with "right to health care" is that health care costs money, and involves other people's labor.
We had a whole war about whether you had the right to someone's labor, turns out you definitely don't.