Jake Wrote:If the RS carries on with the ST's theme of torque-vectoring, it'll be a great track car for four laps at a time before the pads get too hot and give it up.

It's like the entire car is a great idea with flawed execution.

G.Irish Wrote:We'll have to wait to see what the car actually turns out to be before we can say the execution is flawed.

RawrImAMonster Wrote:

SlimKlim Wrote:I'm not that well versed but I think the Focus ST has been having a lot of issues, Jake probably has the deets. BMWs also aren't anything close to what i'd call "reliable" and the parts are just more expensive than VW. After watching everything Justin has gone through I don't think I'd ever buy a turbo-Subaru expecting it to be a reliable car.

The MK6 GTI seems like it has been much better overall than your typical VW trash. The only common issues I'm aware of are the manifold flapper things and water pumps tending to fail, both of which cost about $200 to DIY (or would be replaced under warranty) and the latter is an issue that seems to plague all german cars, especially BMWs. Jake and Maeng had the pleasure of dealing with that on Maeng's X3.

I'm not saying VW's are reliable, I'm just saying don't buy a heavily turbocharged AWD Ford and expect it treat you like a 4 cylinder Ranger.

My cousins 2014 GTI has went through 3 water pumps in under 40k miles. That has left him stranded on 3 different occasions. Luckily he is under warranty, so it hasn't cost him anything other than time. He has had other problems with it, but I can't remember what they are at the moment. He did mention that he would never own another VW again in his life.

I'll be the first to say BMW's are unreliable junk, but I do think they hold up better than VW/Audi's. My water pump's normal lifespan is about 60k miles which isn't great either. But, at least it isn't replacing a water pump every time you change oil kind of frequency.

Either way, I would definitely expect a ford to hold up better than anything german. Although, this Ford is going to be built in Germany, so that is worrying.

RawrImAMonster Wrote:My cousins 2014 GTI has went through 3 water pumps in under 40k miles. That has left him stranded on 3 different occasions. Luckily he is under warranty, so it hasn't cost him anything other than time. He has had other problems with it, but I can't remember what they are at the moment. He did mention that he would never own another VW again in his life.

SlimKlim Wrote:Your cousin could've had a dealer that didn't care enough to spec the correct water pump or do the install correctly. Or maybe the car really was a piece of shit. Either way, I wouldn't base your opinion of an entire brand off of one owner's experience. I just read a post in /r/cars about a guy who's WRX had broken literally everything under warranty, amassed like $30,000 in warranty repairs, and was still plagued with issues as he was approaching the end of the warranty period, and the dealer was trying to blow him off until he hit 60k miles and it wasn't their problem anymore. I bet that poor fucker will never buy another Subaru.

G.Irish Wrote:I think VAG products lead the pack by a fair margin with the number of people we know who have vowed, "Never again".

SlimKlim Wrote:Adam bought a new Rabbit 2.5L and it was a miserable piece of shit. Mine has 75k and it's been a peach for the most part. Some lezzies put 300k on their Foresters, Justin has been whipped firmly and frequently by his. You can cite individual case studies all day long but you're not proving much. Dig hard enough on a Toyota forum and you'll probably find a guy that lemon lawed his Camry SE.

VW got 9th for worst brand reliability last year, Ford got 3rd, Mini (BMW) took the medal.

Again, I'm not trying to say that VWs are "reliable" cars. I'm not even sure I know what a reliable car means anymore. I'm just saying don't write off a heavily boosted 4-cylinder AWD Volkswagen because it's German and bound to be unreliable, then go buy a heavily boosted 4-cylinder AWD Ford and expect it to run like a tractor because it's a Ford. You stand decent chances of running into issues with either one.

G.Irish Wrote:That said, the smart money is on not buying the first year of the RS. There will probably be dealer markups at first anyway.

SlimKlim Wrote:The one I saw was from Consumer Reports I think.

I feel like you think I'm trying to sell you a VW, I'm definitely not. I'm trying to convince you not to assume the Ford will be better just because it's a Ford. Like Jake said, the STs are having plenty of issues all on their own.

At the end of the day, if you're buying a brand new, niche, "performance oriented" car, especially one early in its production run, you're probably gonna deal with some teething issues. Like how Jake's 1st model year ST was delivered with a rear motor mount so soft it sounded like the whole drivetrain was gonna land in your lap on a hard shift.

If you want to buy a new car that you will be guaranteed to never have to take back to the dealer, I'm not sure any of the pocket-rocket hatchbacks are a great option.

Ken Wrote:Totally true. If you're looking for reliable in a hot hatch, you're looking at the wrong type of car to begin with.

Either way, one of these (Golf R or Focus RS) will be in my parking spot within a year

SlimKlim Wrote:The GTI+PP gets a mechanical diff up front... checking the DCC box on the order sheet... APR Stage 1

SlimKlim Wrote:

Ken Wrote:Totally true. If you're looking for reliable in a hot hatch, you're looking at the wrong type of car to begin with.

Either way, one of these (Golf R or Focus RS) will be in my parking spot within a year

You buy the Ford I'll buy the VW?

I actually am considering the new GTI. Even if the R was in my budget I'm not sure it would be worth the additional cost for me personally. If I understand correctly the R gets a center locker but just the "E-diffs" front and rear. So for almost $10k more your main performance benefits are a stiffer ride, more power, and the ability to get a hard launch off the line.

The GTI+PP gets a mechanical diff up front, so with proper tires it should do awesome in the snow. You can get the same suspension by checking the DCC box on the order sheet, and if you're so inclined, you can exceed the R's power level with the APR Stage 1 for another $600, assuming you have a cool dealer.

So the GTI is cheaper, lighter, better on gas, has less driveline stuff to break and will be more gentle on tires. It just might not launch from a stoplight quite so gracefully, but it has to be worlds better than my old worn-out 75k mile MKV on all seasons. Jake's ST came on sticky 235s and that thing got away from a light pretty damn well for FWD.

I saw a VW driving event at Summit Point last year, I'm hoping I can get myself on the list for one of those and ideally drive the non-PP GTI, PPGTI and R in anger all on the same day.