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+--- Thread: The MM Network (/showthread.php?tid=11439)
RE: The MM Network - rherold9 - 02-01-2019
Capital One is seriously looking for engineers and one manager/master software engineer position in my organization. The positions all say McLean, but you can also work in Richmond if you'd like! Please reach out to me via PM if you are serious about applying for any of these positions. I will refer you with the correct experience! I am more then willing to be open about who you will be working with and what the job entails
Senior Associate Software Engineer
Sr. Software Engineer
Manger of Software Engineering/Master Software Engineer
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 02-01-2019
@chris castor sleep in my basement. You can walk to cap one in 15 minutes from my place.
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RE: The MM Network - HAULN-SS - 02-02-2019
The market right now for software people is so dumb I interviewed a guy the other day who had already resigned our company, 2 days before he was supposed to start at his next company. My program managers took that seriously.
The MM Network - rherold9 - 02-02-2019
Yeah it's pretty bad. I have personally interviewed some contractors for above positions that say they have 5, 9, 14, etc. years of experience. They literally can't even do a basic code algorithm to solve for coding question we gave them. I've interviewed college grads that do better on job fit interview than that. That's sad.
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RE: The MM Network - Deceus - 02-02-2019
(02-01-2019, 03:45 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: @chris castor sleep in my basement. You can walk to cap one in 15 minutes from my place.
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Tempting, I know you're kidding but the biggest hurdle to working in NoVa or Richmond for me is not having someone to split a place with. I'm fine with having an apartment I'm only at during the week, I just don't wanna lose my entire pay bump to rent lol.
RE: The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 02-02-2019
(02-02-2019, 02:18 PM)Deceus Wrote:Hey, if you ever do see something you're interested in, let me know. Never know when roommate needs will change.(02-01-2019, 03:45 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: @chris castor sleep in my basement. You can walk to cap one in 15 minutes from my place.
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Tempting, I know you're kidding but the biggest hurdle to working in NoVa or Richmond for me is not having someone to split a place with. I'm fine with having an apartment I'm only at during the week, I just don't wanna lose my entire pay bump to rent lol.
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RE: The MM Network - Deceus - 02-02-2019
I actually just landed a consulting gig with a old manager who went off to start his own company. Don't even have to quit my day job. He wants to rebuild their front end with Angular which made it a really good fit for what I was looking to do. I figured I'd be stuck doing open source work for a bit or freelancing for chump change to get my feet wet but I guess I lucked out big time.
RE: The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 02-22-2019
So, promotion time came and went for me and my manager pulled me aside to tell me I wouldn't be promoted like I was expecting. However, he refused to tell me why and made me wait 2 weeks for my annual review. The week before, they had me in multiple presentations showing how I had worn more performance awards than anyone else on my team and showed that I was spearheading some of our most difficult projects, etc,etc. Most of my team all agreed that I was completely shafted and some were outright mad for me.
I had my APR yesterday and my manager shared that the main reason they weren't promoting me was that I don't go "Above and beyond" like they expect and listed a few examples. One was where one of our most senior engineers left, leaving me as the sole SME on our two most difficult products to support. I had told my manager I'd like to be promoted to something beyond entry level if I had to take over his role. Another example was how I asked for additional compensation when they ADDED on call to my responsibilities after hiring me. On Call was not a thing when I was hired, but was added on to my team months after starting.
So, at the end of the meeting I shared with my manager that I didn't see a future for me on this team and that I wanted to switch to product management. I've reached out to a senior PM in the company who says they're interested in me and also have reached out to the recruiting team to hopefully get me out of this mess. I expressed to my manager that I would have really appreciated if they would have spoken to me to address issues they had that were going to stop me from being promoted instead of letting me crash and burn in their eyes and punish me by not promoting me. He spent the rest of the meeting explaining how my performance was just as good as senior engineers and also referred to me as one of his most "senior" multiple times.
I'm not leaving my team. I'm leaving my manager. What a shame.
RE: The MM Network - WRXtranceformed - 02-22-2019
(02-22-2019, 10:39 AM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: So, promotion time came and went for me and my manager pulled me aside to tell me I wouldn't be promoted like I was expecting. However, he refused to tell me why and made me wait 2 weeks for my annual review. The week before, they had me in multiple presentations showing how I had worn more performance awards than anyone else on my team and showed that I was spearheading some of our most difficult projects, etc,etc. Most of my team all agreed that I was completely shafted and some were outright mad for me.Bummer man, that's super frustrating but that is indeed the corporate way of things. One bad manager can cause a lot of ripple effect at a company. I think you're making a smart move to switch to another team where your hard work is appreciated. Don't let it get you down or discourage your hard work / extra effort. Nothing of what he said takes away from the accomplishments and experience you've earned so far. Its just a bump in the road and you're taking the right path to pivot to another group, hopefully that will pay dividends.
I had my APR yesterday and my manager shared that the main reason they weren't promoting me was that I don't go "Above and beyond" like they expect and listed a few examples. One was where one of our most senior engineers left, leaving me as the sole SME on our two most difficult products to support. I had told my manager I'd like to be promoted to something beyond entry level if I had to take over his role. Another example was how I asked for additional compensation when they ADDED on call to my responsibilities after hiring me. On Call was not a thing when I was hired, but was added on to my team months after starting.
So, at the end of the meeting I shared with my manager that I didn't see a future for me on this team and that I wanted to switch to product management. I've reached out to a senior PM in the company who says they're interested in me and also have reached out to the recruiting team to hopefully get me out of this mess. I expressed to my manager that I would have really appreciated if they would have spoken to me to address issues they had that were going to stop me from being promoted instead of letting me crash and burn in their eyes and punish me by not promoting me. He spent the rest of the meeting explaining how my performance was just as good as senior engineers and also referred to me as one of his most "senior" multiple times.
I'm not leaving my team. I'm leaving my manager. What a shame.
RE: The MM Network - JPolen01 - 02-22-2019
That sounds shitty man. Good for you for already having a plan in motion to continue your career growth. It sounds like your manager sucks. Could it have possibly been a financial thing where higher-ups are not allowing certain promotions/raises? Not that it makes it any better, but his hand may be forced by other powers.
RE: The MM Network - Jake - 02-22-2019
Sucks, but most of the reason why I left CEB/Gartner was my shitty boss (not the one who initially hired me) and our director. It happens to everyone.
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 02-22-2019
Another guy who is a great worker and keeps his head down and doesn't really take much initiative, started the same day as me and was promoted. Someone that started a month after me was also promoted.
My manager also told me that I was his first choice to promote. I did tell him I would appreciate if he were more consistent with what he tells me. None of this makes sense except political reasons.
At my last review, they told me they wanted to see me be more technical to move to the next level, which I have demonstrated. I've written some of our most used tools and also tackled very technical issues. My manager doesn't even know how to review and approve my pull requests. We hired a level 2 engineer a few months ago from client services and I had to teach him SQL and teach him how to read stack traces. I brought this up in a 1 on 1 and asked how I wasn't technical enough if I was the one training more senior engineers.
None of it makes sense to me. I do realize maybe I rocked the boat too much, but I feel torn between standing up for myself and also keeping my head down and taking the beating just to play the game.
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The MM Network - rherold9 - 02-22-2019
Yeah, you spoke out a little too much. Don't say anything else about it. Just move on.
I had a shitty manager my 1st year at Cap One and got screwed over just like you. Hopefully you'll find a better manager as I did my 2nd time
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RE: The MM Network - Apoc - 02-22-2019
Having worked in HR analytics, I can confirm most people leave managers.
My last manager at Amazon made me want to punch babies. It made the decision really easy when that Google recruiter contacted me on LinkedIn.
RE: The MM Network - *insertusernamehere* - 02-22-2019
Maybe there is something intangible or not quantifiable they're looking for, either way sounds like it's better to move teams. Glad that's working out, that's the direction you wanted anyways right? Not promotion? So there's a blessing hidden in here. Focus on the win instead of the loss. You're still moving forward. I'd probably ask your boss aside from the technical stuff where he felt you could improve in the work environment and take that with you to your interviews for the product side.
RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 02-22-2019
(02-22-2019, 10:39 AM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: I'm not leaving my team. I'm leaving my manager. What a shame.
Your manager may have also been blocked from promoting any team members or had no budget for increasing comp, either. So he may appear to be an asshole and blocking your career but its likely his hands are tied or there is some other BS that he's shielding you from. Its not always black and white like that. Internal promotions moving up an existing chain can take a frustratingly long time and shifting to different roles in the company or a different company all together, while you're junior, can shortcut this so its the right thing to do. Dont spend more than 2 years in your first job. I can confirm that rocking the boat too much is a detriment to advancement
Sometimes attitude and perception are just as important to deliver results - promotion means leadership which is a lot different than what you can deliver individually. Its also shitty that if your manager is not helping you achieve that and giving you the tools to succeed since he knew that was your ambition, but most dont because its difficult.Thats why I left my last company a few years ago, too. I really liked working with my boss I hated working for him. That and there was a totally fumbled opportunity for promotion - they created an open position to lead the team I was a part of, I went around with my peers and they encouraged/supported me to apply for it - the boss would have been the same but I could live with that since it changed the structure - first interview he was 20 minutes late and unprepared, fumbled for 2 months without making a decision and openly discussed the position, process, people, etc in team meetings where both of the people that had applied for the position were in. The whole thing was a shit show. Then they decided they didnt need it and were closing it. All while the company continued to lose money which was creating all sorts of problems and backstabbing. Not long after this, some contractors who were salty that I didnt award them some pretty significant (for them) contracts for work at a time while work was pretty thin, accused me and the people that I did award the contracts to, of embezzling money and a bunch of other unethical crap. I decided I didnt need that bullshit and found a new job but it took me quite a while to get over that. It didnt help that I went from one hostile environment to another.
tl;dr hang in there you have motivation and curiosity and want to succeed so you'll be fine even if progress is frustratingly slow.
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 02-22-2019
Thanks everyone. RJ, I appreciate your continued advice and help as well.
Matthew, yes I agree. If I was promoted, it would make it harder for me justifying switching to the career path I want. At the end of the meeting my manager did tell me that they couldn't really afford to lose me right now, so at least I have that confidence that they need me as much as I need them for now.
The external job hunt has been depressing. After getting turned down by Alarm.com for lack of experience, I haven't had any bites on anything within reasonable commuting times. I'm really hoping for an internal opportunity so I can get the experience to open some doors. Unfortunately it will likely be a salary cut unless I can come in as a senior product analyst, which the PM I spoke to said I was qualified for.
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RE: The MM Network - Kaan - 02-22-2019
I have to agree with RJ... what is the world coming to?
Managers rarely get to show their hands. I wouldn't solely place the blame on the manager, he's working within the environment given to him... and legally they have to have the right kind of "excuses" when they cant tell you everything. I've been there more times than I want to admit. I'm kind of glad to manage programs but not have to manage people now... I can be a one man band and succeed.
what it does show is the company environment. I worked with my management team to "better" all my people IF they were interested. But I also used to remind them that opportunity doesn't come around often (with my old company). I worked within the rules my company set, pushing them when I could, to improve my employees. Some of them appreciated it, others did not... to the point I had to defend myself against an EEO complaint (from someone I bent the crap out of the rules for after I laid out the whole strategy and asked for a level of commitment from them... and they quit because it took "too long" though well within the timeframe I laid out).
Don't get me wrong, I've had some terrible bosses. but they usually show themselves well before an issue like you had. Don't condemn the manager without more evidence... but that doesn't mean you stay either... the environment might not be right for you and your style to get where you want to be.
RE: The MM Network - Apoc - 02-22-2019
^ True.
I had two employees who didn't even want to speak with me after transferring out of the team. I know it's because they dislike how I managed, but what they don't know is my boss wanted me to fire them and I refused because I thought I could help them address performance gaps. They will never know that I was actually their only advocate.
RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 02-22-2019
Managers working to enable their people to be better and grow and do different things is exceedingly rare. I've been fortunate to have a few, and been able to seek out the guidance I need when I havent.