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+-- Forum: Technical (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Driving Techniques (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Heel Toe Issue (/showthread.php?tid=10714)
Re: Heel Toe Issue - *insertusernamehere* - 06-04-2014
JustinG Wrote:Learn you some foot work.....
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I wanna do dat
Re: Heel Toe Issue - ScottyB - 06-05-2014
rherold9 Wrote:My car really isn't powerful enough to really worry about rev matching.
rev matching isn't a function of power. its a matter of matching engine speed to road speed so you don't jerk the car around and put strain on your clutch trying to take up the difference when you gear down.
the good news is that all of this stuff is super easy to practice on the street, just don't do it in traffic :lol: . seriously, go out on 33 or whatever and just rev match down 5-4-3, then back up, then again, etc etc. you shouldn't have to look at the tach after a while to decipher the engine speed to match the road speed...you'll hear it and feel it through the seat of your pants.
JustinG Wrote:Learn you some foot work.....hey at least you don't need to drive this around in anger
hock: (go to 4 minutes in)<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://youtu.be/E0o1o5W_f6o?t=4m">http://youtu.be/E0o1o5W_f6o?t=4m</a><!-- m -->
Re: Heel Toe Issue - Mike - 06-05-2014
ScottyB Wrote:rherold9 Wrote:My car really isn't powerful enough to really worry about rev matching.
rev matching isn't a function of power. its a matter of matching engine speed to road speed so you don't jerk the car around and put strain on your clutch trying to take up the difference when you gear down.
I almost said the same thing, but I think power does have a little bit to do with the results, no? A higher powered car is going to be more upset by poor rev matching, right? I could be crazy, but it makes sense in my head.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - Mike - 06-05-2014
ScottyB Wrote:JustinG Wrote:Learn you some foot work.....hey at least you don't need to drive this around in anger
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child, please.
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Re: Heel Toe Issue - *insertusernamehere* - 06-05-2014
Mike Wrote:ScottyB Wrote:JustinG Wrote:Learn you some foot work.....hey at least you don't need to drive this around in anger
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child, please.
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Forget the shifting, can he even see over the dash?!
Re: Heel Toe Issue - ScottyB - 06-05-2014
Mike Wrote:I almost said the same thing, but I think power does have a little bit to do with the results, no? A higher powered car is going to be more upset by poor rev matching, right? I could be crazy, but it makes sense in my head.
yeah, i mean a bigger displacement car is going to have more engine braking. dump a 3-2 shift in a civic and its probably not going to do a whole lot, do it in a viper and i'm sure you're going to bark the rear tires pretty bad at the very least.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - SlimKlim - 06-05-2014
ScottyB Wrote:Mike Wrote:I almost said the same thing, but I think power does have a little bit to do with the results, no? A higher powered car is going to be more upset by poor rev matching, right? I could be crazy, but it makes sense in my head.
yeah, i mean a bigger displacement car is going to have more engine braking. dump a 3-2 shift in a civic and its probably not going to do a whole lot, do it in a viper and i'm sure you're going to bark the rear tires pretty bad at the very least.
My roommate in college asked me why I did the engine blip thing because he thought it was just for show, so I did a 3-2 shift with no rev match and it chirped the rear tires and just about put him into the dashboard. :lol:
But yeah, regardless of your power level give that clutch a rev match. Clutches love rev matches.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-05-2014
I understand the balance aspect. I plan on trying to rev match if I feel comfortable enough. If not then I'm not too worried. I'm going to practice more tonight and tomorrow
Re: Heel Toe Issue - ScottyB - 06-05-2014
if it makes you feel any better it took me like a year to figure out how to be decent at it, practicing all the time. i just have terrible coordination with my left foot.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - SlimKlim - 06-05-2014
Don't you do it with your right foot tho?
Re: Heel Toe Issue - JPolen01 - 06-05-2014
SlimKlim Wrote:Don't you do it with your right foot tho?Yeah, I'm confused? Rev matching is just blipping the throttle (on a downshift) to match the revs to the speed of the vehicle, no? It's real easy.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-05-2014
I think he is saying he had an issue with getting his clutch foot used to pulling out the clutch quickly after rev matching. Like I have the same issue sometimes. I understand what he means
Re: Heel Toe Issue - SlimKlim - 06-05-2014
JPolen01 Wrote:SlimKlim Wrote:Don't you do it with your right foot tho?Yeah, I'm confused? Rev matching is just blipping the throttle (on a downshift) to match the revs to the speed of the vehicle, no? It's real easy.
I think he meant to say right foot, I was just busting his balls.
And yes, that's the basic concept, but rev matching while you're not braking is much easier than heel-toeing or toe-toeing. Once you get the feel for it it's kind of like riding a bike, you never forget, but when I first started practicing it I'd try to spike the throttle and jab down on the brake instead and almost rip my face off.
I think the hardest part of it all is maintaining even pressure on the brake pedal while getting the spike out of the throttle.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - rherold9 - 06-05-2014
I don't have the issue of keeping even force, just remembering to get that clutch foot out as soon as I'm hitting that gas, just doesn't feel right yet.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - JPolen01 - 06-05-2014
Exactly. I've only tried heel-toeing a few times and the pedals in the civic are not conducive to it at all. I really don't need to do it on the street anyway so whatever. But rev matching, yes. That is so simple and almost mindless to do at this point.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - Jake - 06-05-2014
I accidentally learned to heel-toe in Joey's M3 while borrowing it one day in school... I was driving while wearing flip-flops. Had an "a-ha!" moment about heel-toe, and never drove in flip-flops again.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - SlimKlim - 06-05-2014
rherold9 Wrote:I don't have the issue of keeping even force, just remembering to get that clutch foot out as soon as I'm hitting that gas, just doesn't feel right yet.
The more you do it the smoother you'll get. Like Channing said earlier it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect, any bit helps, it's a lot easier on the clutch to have to slip 500 rpms than 3,000 rpms. As you practice you'll start to memorize which gears need which RPMs at which speed and it'll feel relatively natural.
I mean I've been heel-toeing my little heart out in the same car for five years and I still don't get a seamless transition for every shift, a lot of times I'm a few hundred RPMs off and you feel a little bump when the clutch comes out. Whatevs. :dunno:
And when you do get that absolutely perfect downshift, oh man is it satisfying.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - Mike - 06-05-2014
More shifting silliness.
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Re: Heel Toe Issue - Senor_Taylor - 06-06-2014
Mike Wrote:ScottyB Wrote:JustinG Wrote:Learn you some foot work.....hey at least you don't need to drive this around in anger
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child, please.
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I feel like one of those is not real.
Re: Heel Toe Issue - SlimKlim - 06-06-2014
The first one is definitely real, he's got a regular 4 speed tranny with an aftermarket hi/low box to give him 2 "gears" for each gear in the 4 speed. I can't make any sense out of the 3 shifter one though
Mike Wrote:More shifting silliness.
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I saw that, such an awesome solution. I thought it was weird he treated the torque converter lockup like an overdrive, I always thought they locked after a certain RPM in each gear. :dunno: