First MM [Pedal] Bike Build: Shimano Fondriest

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First MM [Pedal] Bike Build: Shimano Fondriest - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: First MM [Pedal] Bike Build: Shimano Fondriest (/showthread.php?tid=7621)

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- Ginger - 09-11-2008

New parts!

Easton EC90 Pro Equipe carbon handlebar - it's the second or third lightest road handlebar I know of, at 180 grams. It's also got traditional road bends instead of the crappy ergo "bends" that have caught on in the past few years. Oh, and it's bling.

[Image: DSC01283.jpg]

Thanks brownboxtruck!

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Carbon bling!

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Normal drops

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View from the top.

Next I need a stem to go along with them. Might have to wait a while, though, since I had some unexpected expenses.

- ViPER1313 - 09-11-2008

Not trying to get down on your build, but I am curious (and I didn't pay much attention in physics) - wouldn't losing 10lbs on your body accomplish the same affect as lightening your bike by 10lbs? How much difference in speed is there between a 15 and 30lb bike?

- Ginger - 09-11-2008

Losing weight will be good for you, as well as the fitness associated, obviously. However, losing weight on your bike pays big dividends, especially while climbing, which is my specialty. That, and I don't have any weight to lose.

I'm already at my ideal weight and training is really the only thing I can do (which isn't what this thread is about. I could post my training logs if you guys wanted, but I think it'd be boring). For bike builds, ask RJ about the difference between a 20 pound bike a 30 pound one. Since I'm running a heavy old steel frame in competitions where a lot of guys are running monocoque carbon models with carbon everything (even wheels), I need to mitigate my losses wherever possible.

I've raced heavy bikes, ones that don't fit right, ones that don't work right, and ones that are ten years behind everybody's technology curve. It's do-able, and I even did pretty well doing it, but there's no reason to if I don't have to. Even training is miserable on busted old junk. This build is about getting good stuff that works and fits right.

- balactm - 09-11-2008

it's not just about the weight of the bike/rider. it's about how much it takes to get the bike moving, or keep it moving. i.e. a lighter bike will move from stop easier and faster than a heavier bike. it's the same with a car. a miata with a v-8 will haul ass off the line whereas a suburban with the same v-8 will crawl.

- Ginger - 09-15-2008

So, my new fork came. It's an Easton EC90 Aero [Red] with a 1" carbon steerer tube.. it weighs around 375 grams, which isn't the lightest thing you can get, but I got it for over 50% off, and it's not certainly still not even remotely heavy.

[Image: DSC01293.jpg]

Ooh, bling.

So, on to installation... first thing is to install your crown race. Make sure everything size appropriate. I had tolerance off up up to a millimeter.

[Image: DSC01296.jpg]

Lucky for me, it was the space-able kind because I don't want to wait on a replacement that may or may not solve the problem.

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Step 1: Cut a hole in the... beer can. Mmmm... tastes like college.

[Image: DSC01298.jpg]

Step two: Cut little spacers.

[Image: DSC01299.jpg]

Step three: begin to fit race, play with spacers as necessary.

Next - press on the crown race. I used an improper combination of a spare pipe:

[Image: DSC01300.jpg]

... and hammer.

[Image: DSC01302.jpg]

Neither method is appropriate - don't repeat after me.

- Ginger - 09-15-2008

The pictures above show a wheel mounted to the fork - this is done to prevent crushing forces from destroying the dropouts during crown race installation. Additionally, I forgot to mention that I was lucky enough to get a frame with the headseat cups already pressed in... one less thing for me to do.

The next step is to put the lower bearing on the fork, and slide it into the frame:

[Image: DSC01307.jpg]

Don't forget to put in the upper bearing:

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Fork in:

The crown race installed above is... crowned. It helps apply the appropriate amount of thrust to the lower bearing. A similar piece goes up top, a split thrust washer:

[Image: DSC01311.jpg]

Force it down in between the steerer tube and upper bearing:

[Image: DSC01312.jpg]

Slide the top cap on:

[Image: DSC01313.jpg]

And you're done:

[Image: DSC01315.jpg]

Stand back and admire your handy work once more.

[Image: DSC01316.jpg]

- Maengelito - 09-16-2008

so how much of that fork is actually carbon nanotubes? I know easton makes bats and hockey sticks that tout the "carbon nanotube" structure but with those, you want it to flex to get the whip action on the ball/puck. I always just assumed it was a CNT skin over some other composite much like a lot of carbon fiber car parts are just CF skin over fiberglass. I assume you dont want this fork to flex though so I wonder what its really made of.

- Evan - 09-16-2008

Maengelito Wrote:I always just assumed it was a CNT skin over some other composite much like a lot of carbon fiber car parts are just CF skin over fiberglass.

Its made with a CNT MGNT

- Ginger - 09-17-2008

Maengelito Wrote:so how much of that fork is actually carbon nanotubes? I know easton makes bats and hockey sticks that tout the "carbon nanotube" structure but with those, you want it to flex to get the whip action on the ball/puck. I always just assumed it was a CNT skin over some other composite much like a lot of carbon fiber car parts are just CF skin over fiberglass. I assume you dont want this fork to flex though so I wonder what its really made of.

Bicycle forks need to be rather rigid in order to aid power transfer (when you stand up, for example, you don't want the front end springing up and down), and provide good tracking. A flexy fork will make handling something of poor guesswork during a 60mph descent. Carbon forks have been around for quite a while, and have been getting better and better every year. The fork on my Serotta weighs ovr 600 grams, IIRC (just checked, the '05 model weighs in at 630 grams, and mine was like, an '01 or '00 model.. so it must be quite a bit heavier). It had a cro-mo steerer and a standard weave. This new one is 100% directional carbon, including the steerer tube, with no other materials present anywhere (even the dropouts are carbon).

Carbon forks have the added benefit of aiding in reducing 'road buzz' - which is [relatively] medium to high frequency vibration transmitted to the rider through the handlebars as the tires pass over road imperfections (100+ psi inflations have a way of being abusive). Over the time frames spent on a bicycle (a "decent" ride is three hours, and I generally don't bother if I don't have the time to go for at least an hour) eliminating these vibrations significantly reduces fatigue.

I just assumed the Carbon Nanotube Technology was a bit of marketing buzz and ignored it when making my purchase. Since you brought it up, though, I did a little research. Apparently Easton determined that the weakest link in a carbon layup was the area where no carbon was presen (just resin)... so they impregnated their resin with 'carbon nanotubes', which are supposed to be hexgonal shaped carbon aggregates (concrete is strengthened in the same way with rocks). Must make it stronger, I guess?

Another neat feature of the fork is the Relief Area Design of the steerer tube. This is a flat stripe around a quarter inch wide that runs the length of the back of the steerer tube (where the stem clamps on). It's goal is to act as a torque limter, so you don't crack the carbon when installing the stem.

I'll take pictures when I cut the steerer tube to the proper length so you can see the pure make up of it.

- Maengelito - 09-17-2008

Ginger Wrote:I just assumed the Carbon Nanotube Technology was a bit of marketing buzz and ignored it when making my purchase. Since you brought it up, though, I did a little research. Apparently Easton determined that the weakest link in a carbon layup was the area where no carbon was presen (just resin)... so they impregnated their resin with 'carbon nanotubes', which are supposed to be hexgonal shaped carbon aggregates (concrete is strengthened in the same way with rocks). Must make it stronger, I guess?

that makes sense, I always wondered which parts were carbon nanotube because you're right, carbon nanotube technology these days is a bit of a marketing buzz word. BTW - there's a huge difference between carbon nanotube, carbon fiber and carbon. Sounds like this fork is carbon or carbon fiber with resin impregnated with carbon nanotubes.

- Ginger - 09-17-2008

Maengelito Wrote:Sounds like this fork is carbon or carbon fiber with resin impregnated with carbon nanotubes.

Sorry, I wasn't clear Smile

You're correct: It's unidirectional carbon fiber with the "CNT" impregnated resin. It's 370 grams with an uncut steerer, so I wonder how light it'll get when I cut it (50mm max stack height).

- CaptainHenreh - 09-17-2008

Maengelito Wrote:BTW - there's a huge difference between carbon nanotube, carbon fiber and carbon. Sounds like this fork is carbon or carbon fiber with resin impregnated with carbon nanotubes.

A fork made with proper straight carbon nanotubes would be the strongest fork ever made. I don't think it's that far down the road either. Carbon nanotubes have too much potential...once the cost goes down material science will be turned on it's head.

- .RJ - 09-17-2008

nanooooooo

- Maengelito - 09-17-2008

CaptainHenreh Wrote:once the cost goes down material science will be turned on it's head.

That can be said about every material really. Look for titanium and magnesium to close the gap significantly on aluminum in the not too distant future.

but we're getting off topic in an MM thread.... again. :roll:

- Apoc - 09-17-2008

.RJ Wrote:nanooooooo

I can't wait for the ipod nanotubes.

I have nothing of value to contribute.

- CaptainHenreh - 09-17-2008

Maengelito Wrote:
CaptainHenreh Wrote:once the cost goes down material science will be turned on it's head.

That can be said about every material really. Look for titanium and magnesium to close the gap significantly on aluminum in the not too distant future.

but we're getting off topic in an MM thread.... again. :roll:

Mmmm...I dunno. I think Carbon Nanotubes are a special case. The strength potential is absurd, far beyond conventional metals and alloys, I should think.

The tensile strength of a carbon nanotube strand vs. a titanium strand is no contest. The CNT is stronger by orders of magnitude.

- Ginger - 09-17-2008

Maeng was making the point htat technology singificantly drives down the cost, associated effective uses, and general development of any material. Aluminum, as a great example, has come a very long way. He was saying, further, that he expects ti and mag to quickly join aluminum in terms of price, if I was reading him correctly - not for those metals to join the ranks of CNTs.

Feel free to go OT. I'll bring it back around as I finish the bike's assembly.

- .RJ - 09-17-2008

nanoooooooooooooooooooooooo

- Maengelito - 09-17-2008

Ginger Wrote:Maeng was making the point htat technology singificantly drives down the cost, associated effective uses, and general development of any material. Aluminum, as a great example, has come a very long way. He was saying, further, that he expects ti and mag to quickly join aluminum in terms of price, if I was reading him correctly - not for those metals to join the ranks of CNTs.

Feel free to go OT. I'll bring it back around as I finish the bike's assembly.

that was my point, thanks ginger. Ti (and Al for that matter) is only expensive because of the processing associated with it, not the supply. Several new processes for turning ore into powder are essentially on the horizon to replace the basically 100 yr old process that is more or less used today. And when it does, I'm sure Al will have to do something to compete. Meanwhile, steel will always be around as the cheaper alternative, maybe not the US steel industry though. There are obviously more factors that go into it but overall, cost of Ti should come down significantly in the not too distant future.

but Rex is right on the point that I didn't make, CNTs are much stronger than most conventional metals or alloys. High quality and consistent CNTs are difficult to scale up in production though. Potential for lots of great applications aside from structural bits, lots of which we probably wont see in our lifetime.

- Ginger - 09-25-2008

Well, I'm waiting on the last package of stuff that I'll need as I type this. In it are an Easton carbon seatpost and aluminum stem, both of which were had on deep clearance, Jagwire brake lines, and Dura-Ace deraileur cables.

Yesterday, my second to last package arrived - new Shimano Dura-Ace SPD-SL-7800 pedals... affectionately known within the cycling community as "the Lance pedal." It was designed for him, and was the only thing that would get him off the ~10 year old design pedals he had been riding. They took advantage of the Look brand patent expiring, which pretty much everybody has done since, and made a giant cleat... perfect for me, because Look-style pedals are all I can ride (I used to get stress fractures when using smaller platforms).

Anyway, again with the deep discount, and yay pictures:

[Image: DSC01318.jpg]

Look for this thing to be finished within a week. Everything should be here, and I'm going to get the steerer tube of my fork cut in a few minutes.