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+--- Thread: This really going to go down? "this" being America (/showthread.php?tid=7682)
- John - 02-27-2009
Evan Wrote:$3.7 trillion budget increases annual deficit to 1.75 trillion.
with another 750 billion in it for the banks.
hope and change.
edit: 750 not 250
Why does everyone forget about the unfunded liabilities? Everything gets swept under the rug like it doesn't exist... but before this mess, there was over $40T in liabilities... FUN FUN!
I'm amazed at America's tolerance to pain nowadays. Rewind to your history books and there was the Boston Tea Party that manifested from a 3% tax increase on tea. I suppose today America is just weak and overmedicated on painkillers... sad but true...
- Ginger - 02-27-2009
Everybody's tolerant of it because they've all got hands in the pie. To quote a family member at a recent dinner: "I'm all for the [stimulus] bill, it's got money in it for my office."
- Evan - 02-27-2009
Apoc Wrote:It's so cute to see you on the other side, Evan.so how is all that hope and change working out for you Chris?
- Mike - 02-27-2009
Evan Wrote:Apoc Wrote:It's so cute to see you on the other side, Evan.so how is all that hope and change working out for you Chris?
it's been what... a month?
i'm amazed that people are already making judgment... wait, actually, no i'm not. i'm certain you had your mind made up the day he was elected.
let the guy make some decisions and see them through before dismissing him completely. am i perfectly happy with everything he's suggesting? no. would it be safe to say i'm slightly concerned? yes. am i going to pass judgment based on what a guy can do to a country in a month? come on...
- .RJ - 02-27-2009
Mike Wrote:i'm amazed that people are already making judgment... wait, actually, no i'm not. i'm certain you had your mind made up the day he was elected.
let the guy make some decisions and see them through before dismissing him completely. am i perfectly happy with everything he's suggesting? no. would it be safe to say i'm slightly concerned? yes. am i going to pass judgment based on what a guy can do to a country in a month? come on...
Yeah, I would prefer to give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he'll make up for it in the next 47 months and I'll look like a bumbling idiot, but so far, 'concern' is a pretty gentle word.
I'm "concerned" about closing the gitmo prison... where are the detained prisoners going to go? They didnt get there by accident.
I'm "concerned" about appointing tax evaders in his administration.
I'm "concerned" about breaking campaign promises not to put lobbyists in his administration.
I'm "concerned" about breaking campaign promises for a tax credit to businesses for jobs. It was $3500 per job.
I'm "concerned" about the environmental 'policy' - cap and trade, pushing for energy independence (thats another rant for another time but we heard it from Nixon too), all on the basis of global warming, an unproven fallacy?
I'm "concerned" about going on Arab TV and telling them that we arent the enemy. No, just ignore those guys with guns we sent over there. Nothing to see.
I'm "concerned" about pushing for $2T in bank bail outs. Where does it end?
I'm "concerned" with pushing the budget to nearly $4T (yes, I know what it was under Bush, this is supposed to be change?) and the deficit to almost $2T. Absolutely, totally, irresponsible. There's no other way to describe it. No, I dont expect a balanced budget in the first 100 days but this is out of control.
I'm "concerned" about the plans for Iraq and Afghanistan. He said that was his job on "Day 1 in office". Maybe I have missed it, but didnt see much in the media on it. Oh oh look at t3h puppy!!1!!11!
I'm "concerned" about pushing for a ban on some guns, and other ridiculous legislation designed to make gun ownership difficult or impossible.
I'm "concerned" about tax increases for high earners and small businesses. If people have money, great, let them spend it. The tax burden is already entirely too progressive IMHO but I am an economics retard so I could be wrong. And I am also "concerned" about not raising taxes for anyone else - its already been discussed to cut, or raise limits for tax deductions - which is effectively a tax raise.
I'm "concerned" about continuing to use Bush to scapegoat budget/economic decisions being made since Jan 20th.
I'm "concerned" about the continued economic fear mongering by O and Pelosi. Its not the great depression, stop telling everyone it is.
Notice I am leaving out health care, clean coal, and nuclear power, among other things. I dont disagree with everything, and I dont think we're going to be sent back into the dark ages either. I do think its going to be a difficult few years for many reasons, including the economy. And before someone says it, I dont think Bush was the bestest evAr. I didnt vote for him in 2000, and while I did vote for him in 2004, Kerry's campaign was absolutely awful.
Edit - And also, before someone else says it, would things be significantly different with McCain? Probably not - he had his own $475B bailout proposal - mostly tax cuts - but spending vs. tax cuts can be a little bit of a shell game and semantics. The situation would still suck and we'd all be on the "mccain death watch" putting Palin in office :lol:
Ok, I'm done. We can go back to this post in 4 years and everyone can tell me how much of a rambling nutjob I am.
- Apoc - 02-27-2009
Evan Wrote:Apoc Wrote:It's so cute to see you on the other side, Evan.so how is all that hope and change working out for you Chris?
Quite swimmingly. I get to see you on offense, instead of defense. Now that's Change I can believe in!
- Mike - 02-27-2009
.RJ Wrote:Ok, I'm done. We can go back to this post in 4 years and everyone can tell me how much of a rambling nutjob I am.
i hope we can :lol:
- Evan - 02-27-2009
Mike Wrote:it's been what... a month?
i'm amazed that people are already making judgment... wait, actually, no i'm not. i'm certain you had your mind made up the day he was elected.
let the guy make some decisions and see them through before dismissing him completely. am i perfectly happy with everything he's suggesting? no. would it be safe to say i'm slightly concerned? yes. am i going to pass judgment based on what a guy can do to a country in a month? come on...
hah! All I posted was the fact of his budget with no commentary. Obviously, since you are getting worked up and defensive, you must know that this record level of deficit spending is very very bad.
I dont have to go farther than his multitude of broken campaign promises, lies, and continuation (and magnification) of the very "bush failed economic policies" of stimulus, deficit spending, and bailouts that he won the election on to prove that he is neither hope nor change nor the bipartisan messiah he suckered the public into believing him to be.
Considering your current g-chat status message is from an article criticizing his mortgage bailouts, are you still drinking the trendy kool aid, or are you ready to see him at face value?
- Mike - 02-27-2009
Evan Wrote:Considering your current g-chat status message is from an article criticizing his mortgage bailouts, are you still drinking the trendy kool aid, or are you ready to see him at face value?
me Wrote:am i perfectly happy with everything he's suggesting? no. would it be safe to say i'm slightly concerned? yes. am i going to pass judgment based on what a guy can do to a country in a month? come on...
- Feersty - 03-01-2009
So what are you guys doing about your IRAs and 401(k). Still staying in or pulling out?
I figure as long company matches my 401(k) I will stick in, and as for IRA, thank God I am young and looking long term..
- Apoc - 03-01-2009
Feersty Wrote:So what are you guys doing about your IRAs and 401(k). Still staying in or pulling out?
Ummm... why would we withdrawal and pay the tax penalty?
- .RJ - 03-01-2009
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- Mike - 03-01-2009
Apoc Wrote:Feersty Wrote:So what are you guys doing about your IRAs and 401(k). Still staying in or pulling out?
Ummm... why would we withdrawal and pay the tax penalty?
withdrawing now would be one of the dumbest moves one could ever make. i have a few coworkers who pulled out when warning signs went up towards the middle of last year... pretty good move by them.
- Goodspeed - 03-01-2009
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I don't think it'd be any different with McCain in office (probably Palin at this point)
- Ken - 03-01-2009
Jesus, one can only imagine what would happen if Palin actually had some iota of power in the white house... she might spend some of that white house petty cash for some home schooling on geography.
- Ken - 03-01-2009
And as for RJ's rant before about the environmental policy; your living in a fantasy world if you think it is not necessary. He has put money in place for updating our nation's energy grid which, at the current pace, would become obsolete and not even provide enough electricity for the nation in roughly 20 years. To be able to do so would require a new powerplant to be built about every week for 14 years. The smart grid would allow for devices not in use to be shut off and save millions, if not billions of dollars. Energy is not only about oil, in fact electricity is a far more important and imminent threat. It's not all about global warming, it's about being smart and staying one step ahead; it's about preventing the loss of our natural land from explosive coal mining which ruins landscapes forever.
- CaptainHenreh - 03-01-2009
Ken Wrote:t's about being smart and staying one step ahead;
Then tell me again why we haven't had a new Nuc plant built since 1996?
Tell me why Senator Kennedy (D-umbass) fought so hard to prevent wind plants being built?
It's not about what's good for the nation, it's about politics for politics sake, and if you can't see that you're blind.
- .RJ - 03-01-2009
Ken Wrote:And as for RJ's rant before about the environmental policy; your living in a fantasy world if you think it is not necessary
See above where I didnt say I disagreed with clean coal and nukeyoolar power. Yes we need electricity. But anyone that thinks we can power the whole country with wind and solar or become completely energy independent is absolutely delusional. To me, its about using your resources effectively, even if that means buying oil from other countries.
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Then tell me again why we haven't had a new Nuc plant built since 1996?
I believe its quite a lot longer back - almost 30 years.
- Ken - 03-01-2009
We absolutely can; it's just not a process of drop oil and coal immediately and "hey lets switch". That's impossible. What we do need to do is recognize the threat and begin steps to prevent this threat. Who cares what one politician did, there are several representatives on Long Island that are fighting an offshore wind farm, both democrats and republicans; and that's exactly my point Cpt. there shouldn't be more "nuc" plants built, their far more dangerous then they are worth and are dangerously short-minded solution. By slowly bringing attention to simple alternatives, and just being more efficient, we can absolutely work to become energy independent or very close to. Or at least, far from where we are now.
- .RJ - 03-01-2009
Ken Wrote:What we do need to do is recognize the threat and begin steps to prevent this threat.
What is the "threat" ? Maybe I've missed something here, but what are we in danger of by not becoming energy independent? The OPEC countries are not stupid - if they control prices to the point they skyrocket, demand diminishes - we already saw a part of this last year.
Ken Wrote:there shouldn't be more "nuc" plants built, their far more dangerous then they are worth and are dangerously short-minded solution.
I will say they are somewhat short minded in terms of waste disposal, however the amount of waste generated by a nucyoolar plant is a lot smaller than you'd think.
From wikipedia - (probably a poor source but I'll go with it)
Quote:A large nuclear reactor produces 3 cubic metres (25ÔÇô30 tonnes) of spent fuel each year
and
Quote:Reprocessing can potentially recover up to 95% of the remaining uranium and plutonium in spent nuclear fuel
Also, can you please tell mw how they are dangerous? We have had 2 incidents in recent memory - Chernobyl, where all the warning signs were ignored and the safety procedures were not followed. Unfortunate. And 3 mile island, where all the safety precautions worked as they should and no one was hurt.
Nucyoolar is pretty popular in europe, and 80% of France's electricity is generated by nuclear. There's over 400 nuclear plans operating around the world. Again, HOW is this such a dangerous thing?